To ask if these are acceptable to wear as school shoes?

[CovidIsADick]

My son has just been put into detention for the second day in a row for wearing the wrong shoes. He has been threatened with a fixed term exclusion too. Their uniform policy says if their shoes have laces they must be black and that they can’t be canvas. These look smart, they have black laces and they are leather. My DS has issues with his feet because of their shape and normal school shoes hurt him. We’ve tried so many different brands.

YANBU- these are acceptable as school shoes.

YABU- the school is right.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Testingprof if you work in schools ypu know that uniform crackdowns and sweating the small stuff are what new management and middle management do to "make their mark". It's effectively the same thing as a dog marking it's territory or a silverback banging his chest. New heads almost always change the uniform, whether in minor or major ways, for this reason.

Actually this isn’t always true. In the schools I’ve taught at even with management being there for a considerable amount of time they has a zero tolerance policy on uniform.

I’ve seen the opposite from new heads and the behaviour in the school was horrific.

A friend currently teaches at a school with a medium term head where they are extremely strict (it’s hilarious listening to the year 6 parents worrying about the possibility of their little darling going there as they purposely contravene the current uniform policy) and they have an almost military style approach to entering lessons with after school detentions handed out like candy. It has absolutely made the difference to this school which is why they are keeping up the ‘crackdown’.

Had not has in the first paragraph

I would class these as trainers however I actually got them for my daughter to wear as school shoes. Her school which is normally quite strickt on uniform has these actual shoes in the uniform policy amongst the acceptable examples so I knew they would be ok. Would not have got them otherwise as I would have assumed they were too much like trainers which the policy says they do not allow.

and they have an almost military style approach to entering lessons with after school detentions handed out like candy. It has absolutely made the difference to this school which is why they are keeping up the ‘crackdown’.

I would absolutely hate any of my DC to go to a school like this. Thankfully I've never heard of any school in Ireland like this.

Strict policies here exist but not rubbish ones around uniform to the letter. This doesn't mean they can get away with wearing anything - rules about footwear & jackets exist too but they aren't onerous or nonsensical. There are options.

Any school which has to use school detentions so profligately isn't a good school in my view. You are getting certain results, but are they the right ones? Real life isn't like that, b&w, with no nuance. What exactly is that teaching these children?

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together which leads to time wasted on dealing with behavioural issues instead of teaching the children.

And yet other countries seem to cope fine.

Funny that

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together which leads to time wasted on dealing with behavioural issues instead of teaching the children

The time that is wasted is on farting around nitpicking over minor uniform "transgressions" to the point where the school is prepared to disrupt the pupils' future prospects over it.

Are you really saying that schools with a no uniform policy, both here and abroad are full of delinquent misbehaving children? I don't think so.

@TheKeatingFive

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together which leads to time wasted on dealing with behavioural issues instead of teaching the children.

And yet other countries seem to cope fine.

Funny that

Maybe they have a different relationship with education?

@Mischance

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together which leads to time wasted on dealing with behavioural issues instead of teaching the children

The time that is wasted is on farting around nitpicking over minor uniform "transgressions" to the point where the school is prepared to disrupt the pupils' future prospects over it.

Are you really saying that schools with a no uniform policy, both here and abroad are full of delinquent misbehaving children? I don't think so.

Those that have no uniform policies here tend to not be state schools. Make of that what you will. We cannot compare other countries as societally they are different.

Maybe they have a different relationship with education?

Maybe. Shouldn't we be working on that then rather than obsessing about polyester blazers?

We cannot compare other countries as societally they are different.

So the U.K. has a totally unique set of problems that can only be solved by dressing children like throwback bank managers? Really?

They are trainers. However, my dds shoes are trainer like as she has insoles for her flat feet. That’s the only time they’re allowed at her school.

They are trainers, not shoes.

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together

Evidence?

In the UK (where for example schools like Camden School for Girls is uniform free) and in other countries, many of which have no uniformed state schools at all.

P.S Camden School For Girls is state.
As are at least 2 primaries I know of which are ‘outstanding’, have fantastic natural discipline and good behaviour and are uniform free.

Please supply the actual evidenced study of how uniform policy raises behaviour and achievement.

They arent fashion trainers and look perfectly smart and neat. Exclusion for wearing them, ridiculous.

It doesn't matter what we think. It's what school thinks that matters.

@ufucoffee

It doesn't matter what we think. It's what school thinks that matters.

Well, no, it's the law that matters. If, as appears likely, the school is discriminating against OP's son by punishing him for having a disability, it's breaking the law.

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together

And yet there ae schools all over Europe with no uniform with no behaviour issues. How do you account for that?

Part of getting ready for school and wearing a uniform helps children be prepared for school and in a school mindset, it prepares them for their futures (most jobs have "uniforms", be it smart casual / scrubs / cargo pants and tops)

Again, how do you account for the fact that thousands of people in Europe manage just fine in jobs requiring uniforms despite not having been to schools requiring uniforms?

Why can't people just follow the bloody uniform rules? Ridiculous.

Find a school that allows trainers if it is such a big deal.

@SkiingIsHeaven perhaps if you at least read the OPs posts you wouldn't make such a tit if yourself .

Your son has a unique situation. I'll talk to the school and work out a compromise. Tell them that you can't afford to buy made to measure or expensive shoes and he can't wear normal shoes.
Talk to the school as an emergency.

@TheKeatingFive

We cannot compare other countries as societally they are different.

So the U.K. has a totally unique set of problems that can only be solved by dressing children like throwback bank managers? Really?

Love this - 'throwback bank managers' 😂😂😂

We cannot compare other countries as societally they are different.

That's so nonsensical.

England is no 'societally different' from say, Ireland or Scotland that approaches here wouldn't work?

Sure, there are differences, but to that extent?

England is no 'societally different'

Is so societally different, not no