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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is a junior doctor in a&e

40 replies

User6777000 · 04/10/2021 21:09

One that’s just left university

OP posts:
Trickleg · 04/10/2021 21:10

No a junior doctor is anyone below consultant grade. It’s a very broad term

lastqueenofscotland · 04/10/2021 21:10

Not necessarily. You count as a junior for a very long time and often rotate during that period.

LeroyJenkinssss · 04/10/2021 21:10

No. A lot of A&Es won’t have F1s (who are immediately post graduation) and the term covers almost all doctors that aren’t consultants.

Why do you ask?

WhatisanODP · 04/10/2021 21:11

Nope. Not necessarily.

They can be anywhere in their training to become a consultant.

Bagamoyo1 · 04/10/2021 21:12

When I trained years ago, it was 5 years at medical school and then a year as a pre registration house officer. So the earliest you could be working independently in A&E would be a year after graduating.

ohdeariforgot · 04/10/2021 21:12

Not necessarily. They are in specialised training which can last up to 8 years before they become a consultant. Some will have worked for a number of years in other specialities.

User6777000 · 04/10/2021 21:12

Was just curious. So do they often only stay a month or two in a&e? Seems to always be different doctors in my local a&e and I’m there regularly

OP posts:
Bagamoyo1 · 04/10/2021 21:12

And as others have said, you’re a “junior” for years

Bagamoyo1 · 04/10/2021 21:13

@User6777000

Was just curious. So do they often only stay a month or two in a&e? Seems to always be different doctors in my local a&e and I’m there regularly
3-6 months depending on the career path. Longer if you want to specialise in A&E.
Northernlurker · 04/10/2021 21:14

We have f1s in our ED but they discuss everything with more senior doctors. It's an important part of their training and they have just spent five years learning a shedload of useful stuff.

Why do you ask?

Northernlurker · 04/10/2021 21:16

emergency medicine have higher doctor to patient ratios then many other areas. On any shift there are a lot of doctors. I work there and can go weeks without seeing all of the same team!

Hyacinth88 · 04/10/2021 21:16

FY1 and FY2 do rotations so yes they will be there for I think 6 months

Witchcraftandhokum · 04/10/2021 21:20

Why are you in A&E regularly?

MissChanandlerBong81 · 04/10/2021 21:21

So is a registrar a ‘junior doctor’ then?

User6777000 · 04/10/2021 21:22

I have a lot of health conditions unfortunately

OP posts:
theDudesmummy · 04/10/2021 21:23

Yes a registrar is a junior doctor

negomi90 · 04/10/2021 21:32

I'm a junior doctor. I qualified 8 years ago and I'm the most senior paediatrician in the hospital at night (unless I decide to call in the consultant). The F1 is also a junior doctor and they finished uni in June.

ISpyCobraKai · 04/10/2021 21:38

Unfortunately I've never had a good experience with a Junior Doctor.
One tried to send me home and I flatly refused to leave, rightly as I had five broken bones in my back.

TableFlowerss · 04/10/2021 21:45

@negomi90

I'm a junior doctor. I qualified 8 years ago and I'm the most senior paediatrician in the hospital at night (unless I decide to call in the consultant). The F1 is also a junior doctor and they finished uni in June.
That’s crazy that you’re considered a junior doctor.

I thought there was a House Officer, Senior Ho, Registrar then consultant. I would have thought the HO was the junior Dr only.

Ilikeanimalsmorethanpeople · 04/10/2021 21:45

in my trust:

F1 brand new dr usually on a 4 month rotation

Junior dr:

F2 next year usually on a 4 month rotation but could also be 6

CT: Higher than a Junior but not a registrar 4/6 month rotation

Trust Junior: Employed by the Trust so they don't rotate

Smile
Fwafwafwa · 04/10/2021 21:48

After graduation the standard full time training pathway is:

  1. FY1 (foundation year 1), 3 rotations of 4 months each (usually in the same hospital). Theoretically an FY1 could be called a "JHO" (junior house officer), but no one does ever.

  2. FY2, 3 more rotations of 4 months each (usually in the same hospital, usually a different hospital to FY1 though). FY2s are the first/lowliest "SHO" (senior house officer) grade.

  3. Enter either a "core" training or run through training programme. These are called "core training" or "specialty training" or "GP speciality training" so eg in the first year of these programmes you would be known as CT1/ST1/GPST1, in the 2nd year CT2/ST2 etc. At this stage you remain an SHO. Core programmes end after 2-3 years then you apply for a further higher specialty training programme, run through programmes the 2 are joined together effectively and you just apply at the start after completing foundation. During this time rotations are usually 6-12 months, more often 6 months. Not usually at the same hospital.

  4. Become a registrar (also shorthanded to "SpR" for Specialist Registrar) - (happens automatically with progression in a run through training programme, or if you have finished a core training programme you will have gone through a further application as above). This tends to be everyone who's badge says ST3-ST4 and above. Registrars are quite senior doctors "on the shop floor" who in some specialties might lead a resuscitation or might carry out surgeries independently etc. Usually rotations are 6-12 months, not usually at the same hospital.

  5. Consultant.

Training lasts a really variable length of time depending on specialty, so eg GPs are a registrar for 1 year (ST3) after being an SHO for 3 years (FY2/ST1/2), paediatricians are typically a registrar for 5 years (ST4/5/6/7/8) after being an SHO for 3 years (FY2/ST1/2).

Some programmes you keep very much to your specialty (eg once in surgery you won't do medical rotations, once in paediatrics you won't do adult rotations) even during SHO years. In others (particularly GP training), you do a mish mash of different specialties during SHO years. Registrars are generally only within their destination specialty though (including GPs hence the "GP registrar" at your local surgery).

In your local ED department the registrars will be emergency medicine trainees working toward EM consultant, possibly some anaesthetics trainees (? Not totally sure), and staff grades not in training (who may have worked in EM a very long time). The SHOs will be a mix of FY2, GPSTs, and STs from EM and anaesthetics (they share a core training pathway). Plus doctors from other specialties (medical, surgical, obstetrics, paediatrics etc) will visit to see their own specialty patients, sometimes planned via GP and sometimes on request from the emergency dept doctors. There are a lot of junior doctors working there, most of whom rotate hospital every 6-12 months, so it's no wonder you may not see the same one twice!

Additional to this doctors often also take years out of training or between programmes to do things like clinical fellowships, extra qualifications, research etc.

All doctors below consultant are called "juniors" even though quite a lot of them are actually very senior / experienced. It can take 10-15 years from graduation to become a consultant and not every doctor chooses to become a consultant. Some will leave training at registrar level and remain registrars as a "staff grade" for many years/decades.

Isabellabasil · 04/10/2021 21:49

Almost all doctors you see in hospital are going to be junior doctors. My DB is training to be an anaesthetist. He did 5 years at uni, 3 years foundation (working in hospital) and has done 4 years of specialism as an anaesthetist. He still has 3 years to go until he may become a consultant and stop being a 'junior' doctor. He is 42 years old and extremely experienced. The term junior doctor is very misleading, no other profession where you have nearly 15 years under your belt and often head teams, would call you a junior.

WoodchipNightmares · 04/10/2021 21:52

The term is very misleading. It's a bit like calling everyone other than the prime minister a "junior politician"

INeedNewShoes · 04/10/2021 21:53

I have found that in the clinic for my chronic medical condition that junior doctors come and go so frequently that I've actually only ever seen the same junior doctor on two separate appointments once (if that makes sense!) but they're all there under the supervision of the lead consultant.

Of the many hospital doctors I've seen for this condition plus a couple of other ongoing conditions over the years, three stand out as having provided exceptional care, and two of those three were juniors.

YourFinestPantaloons · 04/10/2021 21:56

@LeroyJenkinssss

No. A lot of A&Es won’t have F1s (who are immediately post graduation) and the term covers almost all doctors that aren’t consultants.

Why do you ask?

This sums it up pretty well!