Food is too cheap ?

[Loveshelly]

Food has never been cheaper, meat is unbelievably cheap. Even with a conscious move towards less meat consumption it’s clear that huge consumption of cheap meat is going on.

AIBU to think that we all need to spend more on our produce, especially in the wake of brexit, we clearly cannot rely on cheap labour anymore. So we are going to have to pay more.

All I tend to see on MN is people desperate to get food bills down, then on another thread people fretting they can’t keep heating on all night.

Have we become totally skewed about what are the things we should be spending more and less on.

How often do people spend £ on costas and takeaway food , could this resource be better spent on better food purchases ?

@beigebrownblue

Let them eat cake... (that was Marie Antoinette wasn't it)...

After all if they can't afford bread.

Either that or a Tory M.P. said not too long ago that

'porridge was cheap'...

Porridge is cheap, and it has a load of health benefits as well. Plenty of people eat porridge through choice because it's healthy and can taste good, yet people seem to think when this is pointed out people are suggesting they should live off of gruel, which isn't the case.

@Upsielazy

The 12 portions seems excessive, but 500g of mince for 2 10 year olds I agree is a lot, portion sizes are wild now compared to decades past.

I'm not the poster from the original thread but yesterday I used two 100g steak burgers smushed up to make 4 portions of meatballs in tomato sauce so 50g of meat per portion. The burgers had been an Asda substitute that had been in my freezer for months so I wanted to use them up.

I also used 1/2 a pepper, 2/3 of a courgette, some mushrooms and loads of tomatoes to bulk it out. I don't know if it was much cheaper since to double the meat would have cost £1 and the veg would have cost almost that much. It still made generous portions so it proves you don't need a lot of meat to make a meal.

I'm guilty of big portions myself sometimes, I'd happily eat four extra special sausages (or 300g) for dinner for example so not a judgement call here.

@BeepingBB

You're extremely tone deaf.

Well done for not being poor.

Actually I think many posters here are not hearing what OP is saying.

Food production in thsi country has been cut to the bone and beyond. Many producers making a loss when they sell their product on to supermarkets, who make a profit. Becuase we, the shoppers, won't pay more for something.

Take milk. We've been told for years that dairy farmers lose money on every pint of milk. And we shrug our shoulders, not our problem.

With Brexit and covid many other farmers, of meat or fruit and veg, have had to watch their product rot, die, get poured down the drain, because there is no workforce that will work for the pitiful money they can offer (which is usually far more thanthe famer will pay themselves). And we shrug... until the supermarket shelves are empty. Then we start to shout about how disgraceful it is.

I agree with you @Loveshelly Something has to be done to support our farming industry. The clever farmer finds a local outlet, sells direct, supermarkets will lose their stranglehold on pricing and then what?

1. We will all need to start thinking about eating more seasonally for a start
2. Might have to start looking beyond the convenience of a home delivery or one big shop
3. Hopefully we will have to start buying locally - can you imagine the resurgence of the High Street?

I am seeing it here - way out in the sticks. We have long had a weekly fish van. We now have a monthly market in a van. Our greengrocer buys direct from local farmers, has been very seasonal for a few years. Whenlocals start to complain about shortages on supermarket shelves they are being directed to the small High Street shops...

Yes, prices are a bit higher. But they come without the commute by bus or car, the plastic, the long supply chain. And because they are local shops and know their customers they have just started a local coop. Place your order, collect from one shop, some delivery available and they know who really needs it.

This is replicable wherever you live. And could be an entirely organic change. But it won't. Because we cling to the convenience and chase that last penny, regardless of the real cost.

@Tubbytenbums

Farmers were able to accept the prices given to them for their goods as they received EU funding. Not sure what will happen now............

Nope! Tha's not quite right either! It's a hold over from the 'rich farmer bashing' of about 30 years ago.

Farmers have been shouting about losing money on their product for decades.

They have been looking for direct outlets for at least 20 years. All whilst in receipt of that funding. Somewhere along the line we were sold a lie, masking the difference between land owners and farmers - most of whom are tenants and don't receive those benefits directly .

I started cooking a lot more from scratch instead of say a aldi jar tikka sauce 70p. I was thinking when buying all the ingredients for various dishes. Yes can use this again like the rice wine vinegar that was 2.50 I used in 3 different recipes and got lots of portions out of it plus lots other basic ingredients but if I was on a tight weekly budget which I have been I go for 7op sauce

The problem is that cooking from scratch is more expensive in other ways: time, cooking fuel, recipe knowledge, planning, freezer space etc.

I batch cook. Occasionally buy a bottle of ready made sauce if I want tea before I make the next batch. We can do that cheaply because we have a large freezer and long standing habbit of freezing back knobby ends and soft fruit and veg for later use. That isn't an easy habit to get if you are looking at nigh on empty cupboards or a food bank bag.

I often think about that Eat Better For Less programme and think how much better, if less entertaining, it would be if it was Eat Cheaper and Better By Cooking - where every family gets given a large freezer if they don't already have one and a week with a bookmaker who will leave them with a decent spreadsheet.

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/01/uk-pig-industry-warns-butcher-shortage-mass-cull

This is what I mean by too cheap. I don’t mean that I have no concept of how people struggle to feed themselves on a low income.

The people who would usually eat these pigs expect to buy it at a certain amount (too cheaply) which is why they’re all going to die.

I’m talking about what people used to call “mondeo man” who go to Tesco and expect to be able to buy an animal for less than they would spend on a couple of lattes at costa.

This is very much cultural, mondeo man is not poverty stricken.

I don't know as don't have much comparison with meat as been veggie for 25 years. But I now cook meat for my mum and my kids. What I pay for meat is not cheap but I don't trust cheap meat, especially chicken, as I imagine it's full of crap! so tend to buy from a decent butcher and only twice a week as no way I could afford to buy any more that that. It's certainly not cheap! I guess what I pay is what to expect in the future?

I don't have a problem with paying more for goods and services as long as wages move in the same direction for everyone!

@Loveshelly

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/01/uk-pig-industry-warns-butcher-shortage-mass-cull

This is what I mean by too cheap. I don’t mean that I have no concept of how people struggle to feed themselves on a low income.

The people who would usually eat these pigs expect to buy it at a certain amount (too cheaply) which is why they’re all going to die.

I’m talking about what people used to call “mondeo man” who go to Tesco and expect to be able to buy an animal for less than they would spend on a couple of lattes at costa.

This is very much cultural, mondeo man is not poverty stricken.

From reading the article itself, it sounds like the reasons for the excess animals is due to the consolidation of supermarkets so they have the purchasing power to offer less to the farmers, so yes you could blame the consumer, but if all the prices were raised on the shelf for the meat, then would people shop elsewhere or would supermarkets and businesses have to accept the price s and pass the costs onto the consumer ? As is it not the supermarkets and other e.g. Restaurants that set the prices for the consumers ?

When you look at other items that people consume e.g. Fags, booze, sky, packages, ect people still buy those products ect even when the prices go higher.

I'll try and find the weird contracts most farmers end up with when they supply supermarkets.

They get orders for organic veg. When the supermarket decides they have enough organic they buy everything else as 'normal' veg at lower prices. The farmer has no idea how much of which the buyers will take. And they can't sell it elsewhere, that is not allowed. It's also why a high % of the nonorganic labeled veg in a supermarket is actually organic.

It is also why there are many more farm shops and smal enterprises springing up.

The thread about roast dinners just proves my point. That people really don’t give a rats arse as long as they can buy a fucking chicken for £3.33

We are fucked, we will end up like America before we know it.

A lot of it is down to distribution and the huge separation between production and destination. Again. Distribution, or lack of it, is Britain's biggest curse.

@PickUpAPepper
Well exactly, people think that it’s simply about the welfare of the animal. It’s not that simple.

@Loveshelly

The thread about roast dinners just proves my point. That people really don’t give a rats arse as long as they can buy a fucking chicken for £3.33

We are fucked, we will end up like America before we know it.

At least land and housing can be relatively cheap there. And petrol. And electricity. Even their (fairly shit) public transport is significantly cheaper. What is expensive for them, however, is medical care.

Make the other living expenses in the UK lower and I'm sure we'll all be less likely to baulk at paying a score for a chicken, even if it's actually due to a misguided moralism that we should be paying more because food is an indulgence, rather than something we need to live.

It's more expensive and going up and up and up so your reality sure as hell isn't mine

Jars of sauces aren't necessarily bad, some are laden with salt and sugar, but some aren't- I've actually found own brands/basics are often full of less crap than the big brands. Just like freezer food isn't bad if its part of a balanced diet.

This is why food in the UK is so cheap.

www.statista.com/statistics/722905/average-residential-square-meter-prices-in-eu-28-per-country/

We’ve got the highest housing costs in Europe (exc Monaco) yet among the lower average wage in larger economies.

Average salaries in Belgium, Scandinavian countries and Switzerland are so much higher than ours. Yet their housing costs are a fraction of what we pay.

Because we’re the worlds investment bank. It’s a disgrace.

Yes but if you are in a budget and can get a chicken for 3.33 and can make a dinner for it why wldnt you. I went to a farm shop to get veg and saw the chicken was 9.00. Yes it would be nicer but if you can get literally get say mince, to make cottage pie, whole chicken for a dinner and say chicken breasts for a curry all for a 10.00 - 3 for 10
00 you would go for that. I have started to go to a butchers van he owns a shop in the next village.

@Popoloco

This is why food in the UK is so cheap.

www.statista.com/statistics/722905/average-residential-square-meter-prices-in-eu-28-per-country/

We’ve got the highest housing costs in Europe (exc Monaco) yet among the lower average wage in larger economies.

Average salaries in Belgium, Scandinavian countries and Switzerland are so much higher than ours. Yet their housing costs are a fraction of what we pay.

Because we’re the worlds investment bank. It’s a disgrace.

That is not true though, the average monthly salary in Belgium is €2,262, in the UK it is €2,664, the average is Belgium is 15% lower. Also for reference in "Scandinavian" countries they are not "much higher", even in the top of that list which is Denmark, they are only 33% higher. Norway €3,313 (24% higher) Sweden €2,802 (5% higher) Denmark €3,562 (33% higher)

Also, none of that is why food is so cheap in the UK, food is cheap in the UK because the market is dominated by several large supermarkets who have largely competed on price and squeezed farmers and producers for several decades. That combined with JIT supply which is far cheaper, but less resilient and the UK public having unrealistic expectations as to what food should actually cost.

The reason that property prices are high in parts of the UK (mostly London, the South East and South West) is that London and the SE has one of the highest population densities in the world (only really beaten by the likes of Manhattan, Singapore, Tokyo and Hong Kong) and that the South West is highly desirable as a holiday location. UK population growth has outstripped the home building since the seventies, but it was especially out of sync in the early 2000s.

We need lower population growth and more homebuilding, if that is sustained for a decade then house prices will fall.

Also, none of that is why food is so cheap in the UK, food is cheap in the UK because the market is dominated by several large supermarkets who have largely competed on price and squeezed farmers and producers for several decades. That combined with JIT supply which is far cheaper, but less resilient and the UK public having unrealistic expectations as to what food should actually cost.

Yes precisely this. Its not to do with wages or the cost of living, people would always need need buy food, it's the greed of supermarkets to gain market share.

I don’t agree

Housing costs are crippling for working age people in many parts of the U.K. our percentage of income spent on housing is considerably higher than it is in the rest of Europe. We pay less than food than European counterparts.

You’re wrong about the house building. We are building houses, but too many are being purchased by investors.

That’s the root cause of why we have families dependent on food banks and living off tomato sauce and pasta. I’ve spent a lot of time in Italy. Cleaners, chefs, everyday working folk are NOT reliant on food banks. They’re buying lovely fresh food in supermarkets/ markets. They can afford to do so because they are not paying over huge amounts of money for rent. It makes a huge difference to what you can afford to eat.

We are sold cheap and rubbish food that folk in other European countries wouldn’t consider eating. That’s why we have cheap food and an obesity crisis.

@Popoloco

We are sold cheap and rubbish food that folk in other European countries wouldn’t consider eating. That’s why we have cheap food and an obesity crisis.

You think that but... Nope. I know worse. The food hase same packaging, same price like in western country, sometimes more expensive actually, yet (for example) meat content in something is 20% less. The quality in here is not the best, could absolutely be better, but no. You don't get the worst rubbish.