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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think the Met advice to challenge plain clothes officers is just lip service?

37 replies

YourFinestPantaloons · 01/10/2021 20:27

And that at IRL if you did challenge them they'd probably just make things difficult for you. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58757375

As a woman, I have no trust whatsoever in the police - as individuals and as a class. So much has come to light in how many police officers who are violent and sexually violent end up keeping their jobs, how many misogynistic WhatsApp groups are out there amongst officers, how officers don't take women seriously and how there is no (much needed) whistleblowing - Wayne Couzens' nickname was 'the rapist' - yet no one thought to actually do something about someone who was so predatory he gained that nickname.

Even a North Yorkshire commissioner blamed Sarah Everard for her own death because she apparently should have challenged her killer https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58762029

What will it actually take for actual men to be held to account for their actions? For something to seriously change? And does anyone really believe that challenging plain clothes officers will go in their favour? When will the onus be on men to not attack women?

I'm so angry about all this I could scream.

OP posts:
Keeva2017 · 01/10/2021 20:31

I feel this all day long. Nothing more to say, I worry about my daughters growing up and my ability to protect them.

ftw163532 · 01/10/2021 20:32

It's offensive bullshit.

Littlescottiedog · 01/10/2021 20:37

I heard this on the radio earlier. Straightaway, my thought was "So we're putting the onus on women now, to challenge men showing a warrant card?"

It's a ridiculous statement. My advice would be just to try and run away from such a man and deal with any consequences later. No way I'm sticking around to challenge a man if I'm on my own.

ditalini · 01/10/2021 20:41

It's utterly tone deaf given all the evidence to this man's character suggests he would not have reacted at all well to being challenged.

The most likely outcome would have been that she would have had her teeth smashed in and then bundled into the car. The rest would have been the same.

I think most people are conditioned to do what the police tell you. Mainly because we all know that talking back won't likely go well.

ducksalive · 01/10/2021 20:43

Also he was a police officer so what good would challenging him have done?

Maybe the police should work in pairs like Scotland.

Ofallthethings · 01/10/2021 20:47

And also to "flag down a bus". What? That is ridiculous. Buses don't stop unless you are at a bus stop.
Yes this is bullshit from the Met, who are plainly embarassed they didn't pick up Wayne Couzens
sex pest behaviour earlier.

And that police commissioner saying women need to learn more about the legal process and when you can be arrested. Unless you work in criminal law you can't be expected to know about every situation in which you could be arrested. There's so much that is all wrong here.

WitchOftheWestCoast · 01/10/2021 20:47

It’s utter bolleaux obviously. As if any woman, late at night and alone is going to challenge a plain clothes police officer flashing a warrant card. This is just a form of victim blaming - demanding that the onus for keeping women safe be put on women themselves, instead of on men not to attack them. None of this surprises me - one of my best friends (a rising star in the police force, put on track for accelerated promotion) was bullied out and ended up having a breakdown. The man who bullied and harassed her was well known and had done it before. No action was taken against him. If the police can’t sort out their internal issues and rank misogyny why should any woman have any faith that they can protect us?

WrongKindOfFace · 01/10/2021 20:48

It’s offensive bullshit.

ELCismyspiritnana · 01/10/2021 20:48

I was very heartened to hear my older generation male colleague expressing disdain at the advice to “challenge” officers as it was putting the onus on us as women to challenge them and therefore feel responsible for any untoward behaviour. How about instead the police change their guidance to officers not being given powers of arrest as single officers (protects the officers as much as the potential victims) and admit they have the responsibility to make us feel safe, not the other way around. I’m so fed up of women being blamed for being vulnerable and at risk of predatory males. Much, much harsher punishments are needed for officers showing preparatory and discriminatory leanings and a robust blame free whistleblowing protocol is needed

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/10/2021 20:49

This is stupid, dangerous advice for both women, and officers. Utterly ridiculous.

How about every police officer accused of sexual misconduct doesn't bloody have their warrant card any more?

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/10/2021 20:50

Oh and there's the footage that's come out of the 15 yo who did resist getting kicked in the stomach so damned if you do...

BonteGracieuse · 01/10/2021 20:52

WTAF is this!

Mayra1367 · 01/10/2021 20:54

Absolutely ridiculous response!
Maybe the met should root out all the bad apples instead of putting the onus on women to challenge a police officer. Any police officer who was aware about this mans previous incidents and didn’t inform senior officials should hang their head in shame .

ducksalive · 01/10/2021 20:58

Yes, how exactly am I meant to flag down a bus in London ( while resisting arrest)?
I missed out on my Hogwarts letter.
I often couldn't get buses to stop at actual bus stops.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/10/2021 20:59

@BonteGracieuse

WTAF is this!
Exactly. When you allow predators to have power WTF do you think is going to happen.

It reminds me of some coverage when Mike Tyson's victim was asked if she resisted the assault. Yeah, a little woman against the heavyweight champion of the world.

I am so angry about this. Get your house in order!!!

TheHateIsNotGood · 01/10/2021 21:04

I'm totally sick of Victimology, it had it's place a few years ago, but this We are Vctims bs has to stop. In terms of this advice, all I can see is female crims and their lawyers using it as a 'defence' to cover their crimes.

Original poster
YourFinestPantaloons · 01/10/2021 21:05

@TheHateIsNotGood what do you mean?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 01/10/2021 21:07

[quote YourFinestPantaloons]@TheHateIsNotGood what do you mean?[/quote]
I'd love to know too!

Seventeen44 · 01/10/2021 21:10

Apparently we also just need to learn more about the legal process!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58762029

I am so fucking angry tonight.

Seventeen44 · 01/10/2021 21:10

@TheHateIsNotGood U OK hun?

WitchOftheWestCoast · 01/10/2021 21:11

Tbh this bullshit from the police makes me so glad I never reported any of the three rapes I experienced. As a lawyer I’ve seen victims cross examined and berated in court and during police interviews, for not resisting and fighting their attacker off. It ignores the reality of the situation - in that moment many victims freeze, it’s an automatic survival response to keep us alive. Many people - women and people of colour especially, have good reason to distrust the police and have had it impressed upon them, through social conditioning and violence that they need to comply or face dire consequences. Now, lo and behold we are all supposed to be experts on due process and our full legal rights and be able to assert them against the police when needed.

I am furious.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/10/2021 21:12

Apparently we also just need to learn more about the legal process!

To avoid, once more with feeling, being kidnapped, raped and murdered by serving police officers who are still roaming the streets, even though there are accusations of sexual misconduct against them.

Anger doesn't quite seem enough.

ducksalive · 01/10/2021 21:16

I'm totally sick of Victimology
What?

It seems perfectly clear we are discussing a victim and the inadequate responses from the murder's employer about how to prevent further victims in the future.

If getting arrested under false pretenses and then raped and killed doesn't make you a victim what exactly does?

PicsInRed · 01/10/2021 21:20

The police rely on the support of the "middle" to police by consent.

They've lost this. Completely.

What next? Mass police reform, or a lurch to authoritarianism? We saw attempts at the latter during the 1st lockdown, until mass outrage and resistance took place, so we know they're capable.

dayswithaY · 01/10/2021 21:24

All I thought when I heard this advice was if I was to refuse handcuffs and resist arrest wouldn't I just end up face down on the pavement being restrained?

Ask to listen to his police radio - I wouldn't know if what I was hearing was fake or not, ditto warrant card.

Flag down a bus, what's the poor bus driver supposed to do? Jump out, abandon his passengers and come to my rescue, possibly getting himself arrested in the process?

It's also dangerous to focus on a lone police officer fake arresting a woman. Surely kidnappers work in pairs too?