To think the government should allocate individual carbon passports?

[julieca]

I think the government should issue everyone in the country with a carbon passport giving a set amount of carbon you can generate every year. Every time you do something where carbon outputs can be measured e.g. flights, pay your heating bill, buy petrol, buy a new car - a carbon allowance is deducted from your passport.
But you can also sell and buy your carbon allowance. So people who never fly or use a car can make a bit of money by selling their carbon allowance.
The government could have pledged to reduce individual carbon allowances every year.
This will reduce flights, cars, etc but through a more capitalist approach, than a central state approach.
So YANBU - yes this should happen
YABU - no a stupid idea

@julieca you know who actually has the power to put pressure on firms, through targets and legislation - the government.

Do you know who doesnt have power to put pressure on firms - children, women in abusive relationships, disabled people, the elderly, people living in poverty, all the people disadvantaged by your idea.

There are plenty of other ideas on here that are much better.

You know what else would reduce carbon emissions - a four day working week - less car travel needed, less carbon emissions on heating buildings, lighting them, powering computers etc. You know who benefits from that - women with children (less childcare needed), disabled people (who may be able to work 4 days where they cant work 5 and part time jobs are hard to find, or who may have more family around to look after them instead of having to rely on carers so have a better quality of life), the elderly - again more scope for care and social visits and a better quality of life., people living in poverty as it may be easier for them to have the time to pick up a second job, or give them the time to study to improve their employment prospects or have to pay less childcare, or cook better meals etc. Unfortunately it could detriment people in abusive relationships.

However in general if you look for ideas that get big businesses to do whats necessary rather than penalising people in society who are penalised enough by this government then you may actually come up with a realistic solution.

One study by the way says that data centres are responsible for as much carbon emissions as global aviation. So cutting down on flights by increasing data storage requirements is a bit of an own goal...

So do h people who have the money can buy carbon credits and poor people are the losers again?

Did you know that BP created the phrase and concept of "carbon footprint" as a marketing ploy to distract from their own negative impact and push the responsibility on individuals? Just an interesting tid bit to keep in mind!

No i did not know that!

That's not to say that the idea of a "carbon footprint" isnt useful to some extent but I think it shows how successful the biggest polluters in the world have been at implying that individuals should look at their own behaviour while at the same time ignoring the enormous toll they are having on the planet. We are being manipulated in many ways by these corporations to finger point at each other to distract from the real problems caused by late stage capitalism and its toll on the planets scarce resources.

Also, the UK government is investing billions in expanding oil and gas extraction and saying "oh but it's ok because these companies say they will align with our climate change goals". Heres a link which shows what a load of shite that is www.google.com/amp/s/insideclimatenews.org/news/16072020/oil-gas-climate-pledges-bp-shell-exxon/%3famp

I think a much better option is for the carbon generating societies with minimal forestation to pay countries with places like the amazon a carbon levy so that they keep and expand their forests instead of cutting them down. Forests can be monitored via satellite to ascertain size and ensure they are maintained / increased. Carbon emissions are a global issue that require a global response.

Saw a really interesting article about someone, I think in Africa, who has found a way to turn recycled plastic into bricks - the product apparently being much stronger than bricks. I've also seen solar tiles for house roofing, but that product doesn't seem to be widely publicised.

worldarchitecture.org/article-links/egmeg/kenyan-startup-founder-nzambi-matee-recycles-plastic-to-make-bricks-that-are-stronger-than-concrete.html

In other news, OP would also like a permanent lockdown, forcible vaccination, pronouns banned and virtue signalling to be mandatory. People like this usually do.

hahahah to the ops idea!
Can you imagine trying the police this?
How many 1000s of staff would it take using how many computers?
But fabulous that me and DH were unable to conceive though, and had to adopt! How many long haul holidays can we have on the strength of that energy saving windfall?

OP are you looking for an unbelievable Dystopian future novel plot?
Rationing carbon emissions, having families sitting in one room freezing? Have them eat lettuce sandwiches for Christmas Dinner as they have used up their carbon allowance? All because to the 2045 beast from the East arrived in November and will stay till January?

The government should stop pretending that individuals have any agency over the vast majority of the emissions ‘assigned’ to them.

Instead we need proper regulation - decarbonising the finance sector and investments, have trade policies that prioritise getting environmental destruction out of our supply chains, putting the onus on companies to decarbonise through a carbon tax, high subsidies for household conversion to low carbon heat and EVs.

Don’t forget to penalise those that have god kids and those that are big families … that also impacts the world!

Btw no thanks. I don’t want to live in a world where we get points for being good and bad for being a bad /naughty boy.

@julieca How would that even work? Would the pilot that flys you on holiday be classed as massively over generating CO2? What about lorry drivers? Would they have to account for the CO2 in moving your shopping about?

I’m a service engineer, I travel a fair bit, how would that work? What about health visitors etc?

Maybe we could only allocate carbon allowances to people who work? Unemployed people shouldn’t be generating CO2 travelling surely?

@Hiphopopotamus

No - I think the governments around the world should focus on the 100 companies that between them account for over 70% of carbon emissions, and stop trying the put the issue on to individuals when the problem is systemic.

Virtually all of those 100 companies are oil giants. If we didn't use petrol, they'd produce less and pollute less. Customers are responsible for the emissions their purchases generate in my view.

I don’t know whether the op is being a bit tongue in cheek but this is actually on its way. It’s thought this is also why so many businesses are refusing cash and why food labels will contain carbon info.

www.mastercard.com/news/press/2019/february/mastercard-and-doconomy-launch-the-future-of-sustainable-payments/

www.which.co.uk/news/2021/06/food-sustainability-environmental-scores-label-planned/

doconomy.com/doeverydayclimateaction/

doconomy.com/

Those saying companies should have to pay for
carbon emissions. You do realise that the cost will be passed onto the customer....

And yes luckily there is nothing much going on with the country at the moment so what a great idea

@Mreggsworth

I think something like that should be applied to flights, that maybe people are only allowed a maximum of two return flights for leisure purposes per year, with exceptions for things like essential work, visiting family, voluntary work etc. Itll still be a system that's abused based of how many influencers during lock down deemed their pool selfies as essential work, but overall it should reduce air travel. I follow a millionaire business coach on instagram and she goes on holiday every month. Everyone should have the option for a foreign holiday and to see the world but it should be seen as something special and infrequent, and not done willy nilly.

I think tracking everyone's bill's and energy use would just be too messy and would be a logistical nightmare to carry out fairly. I think a starting point with making changes is to raise awareness. Climate change is spoke about on here often, but in my day to day life I get the impression its not even on people's radar. I think some really hard hitting ad campaigns are needed, similar to the ones about smoking, driving safely etc. To paint a picture of what life could be like in the future if we arent more cautious. I know obviously that's not the solution, but I think it's a starting point and something that needs to be done to get people thinking.

Everyone having two return flights a year? That's far too much, aviation accounts for -12% of the UK's emissions, even though lots of people don't fly every year.

No, a permit for one return flight (or part of a long haul one) per year. No exceptions, if you need extra for any reason you can buy someone else's unused ones. If anyone wants my spares, I'll start the bidding at...

Well I have no children, don't drive, have never been on a plane and don't go further than 7 miles away from home ever. So I guess it would be handy to be able to sell my allowance

[quote CBUK2K2]@julieca How would that even work? Would the pilot that flys you on holiday be classed as massively over generating CO2? What about lorry drivers? Would they have to account for the CO2 in moving your shopping about?

I’m a service engineer, I travel a fair bit, how would that work? What about health visitors etc?

Maybe we could only allocate carbon allowances to people who work? Unemployed people shouldn’t be generating CO2 travelling surely?[/quote]
No, an airline's emissions are wholly the responsibility of their customers in my view. So the pilot only generates emissions when he is off duty and flying for leisure.

Really interesting concept. Like anything wouldn't work perfectly. We work in the carbon reduction industry but our project is in another country, necessitating travelling so we have to offset our own lives as well. Calculating a persons carbon footprint is done in a variety of ways but none of them perfect like anything.

What about people like me? Disabled, housebound most of the time, gets a new car every 3 years through the motability scheme, needs the heating on 9 months of the year, has to use disposable incontinence products, uses online supermarket orders every week & Amazon, can't use public transport. One green thing that pharmaceutical companies could do is stop producing tablets in plastic strips & go back to glass bottles, I collected all my empty plastic strips for three months for charity, I ended up with a carrier bag full, multiply that by the amount of people in this country who are ill, disabled or on long term medication, it would save so much going to landfill, ending up in the sea or environment. The same for plastic bottles for pop or things like table sauces, charge a deposit on bottles like they used to. If everyone did the small things like that & things like solar panels were made compulsory for homes of all ages, just like the energy companies are handing out smart meters free, if solar panels were done free, it would create jobs producing & fitting the panels & reduce the amount of electricity
needed to be produced by power stations.

It's a lovely idea. In as much as income tax is a lovely idea. It favours those who've accrued money already, ignores those who have no choice over expenditure and doesn't actually reward frugality.
And lets big companies shift liability onto their customers.

@DdraigGoch what about nurses? Truckers? Service engineers? Taxi drivers? Paramedics? Restaurant owners? Delivery drivers?

Do we all have some magic carbon credit account?

What if I travel with a friend? Do I pay less?

Should the government put CCTV in my house so they know if it’s just me with the heating on of if we should share with others? Would guests clock in?

I use my car, its been over 33 yrs since I went on a plane (showing my age now)

A bit sinister to willingly give the government that much control over our freedom.

Also, it would inevitably end up with the poor really struggling and suffering and the rich doing whatever they wanted all the time.