To question whether Comprehensive Schooling has achieved what was anticipated when Kidbrooke opened in 1954

[peewitsandy]

Kidbrooke School in Greenwich was the first purpose built Comprehensive school in England in 1954. The dawn of a revolution in education was anticipated a 'Grammar School' for everybody was the notion espoused by politicians. This being the mantra of especially those on the left of the political spectrum.

Fast forward some seventy seven years later , where many posters on here will inevitably choose Grammar School nine times out of ten. This being factual even if local Comprehensive is Outstanding and the Grammar School requires a sixty minute journey there and back.

This, suggests parents make the grammar school choice, over a perfectly good Comprehensive option, because the mantra of a 'Grammar School for all' has not succeeded .

This is despite seventy + years of promotion of Comprehensive Education by Governments of both colour.

The original notion of Comprehensive education, was that over time both Private and Grammar Schools would become absolute .

I've never lived in an area with grammar schools so comprehensives are the only option. At least kids aren't hothouses based on family incomes. I did all right and my kids are at Russell group universities from comps

I grew up in a fully grammar/secondary modern system with no comprehensives and now live in a fully comprehensive area with no grammars. I much prefer the comprehensive system. My children in comprehensives have better teaching, better interpersonal skills, a more well-rounded view of life and a similar opportunities for success than I did in my grammar.

I deliberately moved near to a good comprehensive to gain entry for my DD. I went to a private school until I was 16 and a grammar school to do my A Levels. The jury is still out as to how happy I am with the comprehensive. I like the ethos and mix of socio economic diversity, and the pastoral care is good. Am not sure she will do so well academically as I did however. And the environment is definitely harder to cope with.

Where pupils are streamed off via selection the schools who take the rest of the cohort are de facto what used to be called secondary modern, even though the title is rarely used these days.

Further to HilaryThorpe's excellent explanation, these days they call them 'Upper Schools', primarily to avoid the pejorative name 'Secondary Modern', but everyone knows what they are – DD1 attended one

And as a wise person once said: You hear people calling for more grammar schools, but you never hear anyone calling for more secondary moderns…

@thing47

Where pupils are streamed off via selection the schools who take the rest of the cohort are de facto what used to be called secondary modern, even though the title is rarely used these days.

Further to HilaryThorpe's excellent explanation, these days they call them 'Upper Schools', primarily to avoid the pejorative name 'Secondary Modern', but everyone knows what they are – DD1 attended one

And as a wise person once said: You hear people calling for more grammar schools, but you never hear anyone calling for more secondary moderns…

Your last sentence is meaningless, because there are less grammar school places than secondary modern (or whatever name is used for non-grammar). I daresay if you flipped the system with a surplus of grammar places that some children were forced into for lack of other school places, then you would have parents asking for more.

Plenty of people living in the comprehensive system who are bloody pleased their child isn’t going through the 11+ and selective system.

Your last sentence is meaningless, because there are less grammar school places than secondary modern

That depends. Where I live the nearest grammar school is larger than the nearest secondary modern (both about the same distance away).

But I think we're actually in agreement, I think the comprehensive system is a much better one than the grammar school/secondary modern system.

When I was growing up, there was one large secondary modern school in our area and two grammar schools for girls and two grammar schools for boys. We sat the 11 + and, if we passed, we could choose the grammar school that we wished to attend. If we failed, we went to the secondary modern (SM) school.

The 11 + was supposed to screen children onto either academic or vocational pathways. If a child passed the assessment, s/he went to the grammar school to be nurtured towards university and/or a profession. If the child failed, s/he went to the SM school to learn a trade.

Very few children from my little village school passed their 11 +. This was not because they were not academic, it was because there was no National Curriculum in those days, and teachers did not teach the children what they needed to know to get through the assessment.

If the children did pass the 11 + (my aunt was such a child), they could get some good qualifications, but they were unlikely to go to university for all sorts of socio-economic reasons. My aunt left school, worked in Boots and trained to be a pharmacist. Her sister, who failed her 11 +, left school and then trained to be a nurse. Both girls needed to work; both benefited from further education.

The SM that I attended was a place where you went if you failed the 11 +. The teachers were, on the whole, teachers who had a good social conscience, but who seemed very disaffected. Discipline was a problem. Perhaps the teachers wished they had the prestige (and pay) of the teachers at the grammar school.

The ideology behind comprehensive education was really admirable. It sought to provide high quality, openly accessible education for all. It was part of the welfare state which wanted high quality, openly accessible healthcare for all and high quality openly accessible housing and social care for all.

However, such equality was never achieved and this is partly because society itself is inherently unequal. My children, like the children of so many parents, had very little choice about the school they attended. There was one local 'comprehensive' school in our town, and unless they had a specific need for out of area education, that is where they went.