Nursery and nap times

[Appleofmyeye05]

Hi please can you tell me if I’m being unreasonable or not because this has got my goat a bit.

My son is usually an early riser, this week he’s been up at 5.30 if not slightly before then.

He goes to nursery 8.45-14.30, I usually advise at drop off if he’s had an early morning and if he can please go for an early sleep as their sleep time is 12pm and I think it’s a long time for him to go before a nap.

My son is nearly 2, has been at nursery about 4/5 weeks and his usual nap time at home is between 10/10.30

I have mentioned this to his key worker yesterday about him having early starts and wanting him to sleep and she told me that no other children stay awake so he’s awake on his own and if he seems ok she will push him on, I said in a polite way, no he must go to sleep (or at least try) for 10/10.30.

Thai morning he was up at 5.30 and I advised on the door that he will need an early nap, at pick up I had noted his sleep entry wasn’t inputted and when I asked about his sleep his key worker tried to brush over it and talk about something else. Again I said can he go to sleep earlier if he’s had an early start, she said he was playing so she didn’t attempt his nap.

It might seem really immature and a non issue but my son struggles when he’s over tired or not had enough sleep and has been lashing out physically at home.

I’m tempted to write an email to management, AIBU? Or should I mention it again to her tomorrow at drop off?

Additional info so as not to drip feed:
key worker is early 20’s with no children of her own, I have been told by another staff member in the same room that some children don’t have a nap so my son isn’t awake by himself (and anyway is the children are all asleep, there’s more than 2 staff members available to my son)
My sons bedtime is between 6-7pm

Please help!

I voted YABVU because with the amount childcare costs in think they should be able to tailor care for each child child. But, that's why i went for a childminder who was about to give the individual timetabling and care. Its one reason I want keen on the idea of a nursery.

Ok, me saying she’s early 20’s with no children of her own wasn’t a dig at her or her capability to look after children, it was written purely incase anyone asked the age of the key worker. I’m sure she is very capable or else she wouldn’t be working within a nursery setting.

I would prefer that his longer stretch be at home rather than nursery. He does usually wake quite early but to be completely honest with you I have tried the later bed times but he still rises at roughly the same time. So I’m just assuming this is how he is and the times he will wake.

Routine at home is wake at 5.30/ 6.30, nap at 10.30 (which he is ready for) sleep till 11.30/12 then get on with the day till bath and bed between 6-7 which again he is ready for bed at bed time.

When he was starting to lash out at home I couldn’t figure out what was causing it apart from obviously a new routine and I’ve put it down to him being tired and I want to do all I can to stop him lashing out, not only to myself but to other children and staff at nursery and if it means him having an earlier nap then so be it.

He does usually wake quite early but to be completely honest with you I have tried the later bed times but he still rises at roughly the same time.

How long did you try it for? I've seen so many people say this and they mean 'we tried it once or twice and it didn't work instantly so I stopped'. It takes a while of consistent change to adjust a body clock, like when someone adapts to a new time zone.

Though I guess really it's irrelevant whether he'd be better off napping at 10 or 12 - I would guess that nursery just can't really accommodate him napping at 10 and aren't going to, so you'll really have to decide on whether or not that's a deal-breaker for you.

What time do they have lunch at nursery? If he has his nap at 10.30 like you're suggesting I'd have thought he'll end up missing his meal altogether.

I’d push nap time consistently back to 12, push bedtime back to 7-7.30 and after a month or so you might see a difference in his early wakings.

Sorry but another one thinking yabu. If he us napping kater at nursery i would be trying to get his home naps in line with that, which in turn might push his bedtime a little later.

I have read that "allowing" an early riser to gave an early nap, perpetuates the early rising. I don't know how accurate that is.

At the nursery my DS attends putting one toddler down for a nap at 10.30am just wouldn't be practical. The toddlers have the use of two rooms, one is used for activities in the morning, then after lunch turns into the sleep room with little mats put out for them all. There's no way DS would have been able to sleep in there other than at the set nap time as they have things planned, outside classes etc.

If he isn't bothered by a later nap on the days he's there can't you just be a bit more flexible and do a later bed time those days?

DS (almost 3) has just moved into the preschool room and they don't do naps there at all, even though he still naps at home. He seems to be coping fine so far, but goes to bed much earlier on those days.

They probably have lunch at 11am. They can't change their whole routine to fit with one child.
He's lashing out because he's 2, it isn't called the terrible 2's for nothing.

YABU

If you wanted individual care you need to use a childminder who doesn't have their legal complement of children. Even then you risk your child refusing to nap if they want to play with a specific child particularly an older one who doesn't nap. (I'm speaking from experience with this.)

As Hardbackwriter and PPs have said move your child's bed time later, so he wakes up later and try it for a minimum of 2 weeks.

@Hardbackwriter

Sorry I don’t agree with that I’d make a fuss. Rather than going straight to management or leaving a snappy message on the online portal, I’ve asked for advice from others so I can see from another persons(possibly a nursery workers) perspective so I don’t make an unnecessary fuss or get anyone into trouble.

I’m a bit surprised I’ve used two different nurseries and none of them have had a problem with changing nap times to suit needs. Surely they have to be a bit flexible?

I don’t understand why he would be tired and lashing out at home? Surely he should be less tired at home after a later nap? As opposed to napping at 10 and then Being over tired by bedtime. If he’s only having one nap, lunch time is perfect.

They can't facilitate all different nap times for different children. It's literally impossible in a nursery unless you have small babies with enough staff in a separate baby room.

If you want 1:1 care you need to hire a nanny.

They aren't being unreasonable, but if you want to you can contact the manager for a discussion. It's massively inconvenient though and if they do manage to facilitate I'd be very impressed with them.

Surely his early nap would coincide with the first nap for younger children in two naps, so couldn't they perhaps facilitate him going in with them?

Find a different setting if you aren't happy, trying to get a 2 year old to nap at 10am when that's prime activity time and everyone else is playing etc seems like a pain.

Even for an early riser, a mid morning nap is far too early for a nearly two year old. At nursery, this would be right in the middle of the activities and then he'd be awake after lunch when the other toddlers are napping. I don't blame them for not wanting to cooperate.

Work on encouraging him to sleep later in the morning (2 is not to young for a Gro Clock - if he wakes before the time set, just quickly and quietly settle him as many times as it takes but don't let him get up until the 'sun' on the Gro Clock is up). Lots of praise for staying in bed. Start by setting the clock for the time he usually wakes and push it back by 5 minutes every few days.

With a bedtime of 6-7, you should be aiming for a wake-up of 6-7am and a nap of 1-2 hours immediately after lunch at his age.

@Pumpkin5piced

I don’t understand why he would be tired and lashing out at home? Surely he should be less tired at home after a later nap? As opposed to napping at 10 and then Being over tired by bedtime. If he’s only having one nap, lunch time is perfect.

This, precisely. Your fear about lashing out in the afternoons makes no sense at all. He’s lashing out because he’s exhausted because you made him nap at 10, rather than push him to 12 to get a solid nap to see him through until bedtime.

I agree with PP that by allowing him the earlier nap you are almost perpetuating the early waking. Something to do with them continuing their nights sleep in the morning. Try a 12ish nap (push back gradually if you’d prefer) and I’m sure it will help if you give it enough time.

I doubt that the “lashing out” is to do with the Time of the nap. Many toddlers tantrum when they get home from nursery. It’s because they’ve had a tiring day of new experiences and now they are home they can let out all of their emotions. Painful for us, but very normal (we’re going through it now).

In all honesty you have a very unusual feeling routine for that age of child. There is a reason that pretty much every toddler going (and therefore nursery) does a post lunch nap. They are never going to get him down at 10 during the peak time for activities. My 2 year old has stopped napping at nursery as she doesn’t want to miss out. They enforce some quiet time so they don’t disturb the others who are napping but I doubt they have the space for one child to sleep at 10 especially if all the other kids are up and awake.

You’d probably find you’d have a more civilised wake-up time without the morning nap.

I agree with PPs who suggest maybe a nanny or a childminder could be more suited to your needs. Although I also agree that the nap schedule seems a bit early for a 2yo.

I’m not sure why you’d think that anyone would ask about the key worker’s age and parental status either? I’m a secondary teacher but I’m not old enough to be a parent to teenagers and therefore have no teens of my own… does not have any relevance to how I do my job.

Imagine you have 3 staff and 12 children (1:4 ratio) and each day, each child’s parents ask for a personalised sleep schedule. It just doesn’t work unfortunately. Staff and children would have to be in and out constantly.

Surely his early nap would coincide with the first nap for younger children in two naps, so couldn't they perhaps facilitate him going in with them?

1. It would cause problems with the staff to child ratios.
2. He would notice that he's going into a room with younger children but his normal playmates aren't so will start refusing to nap.

One of the things with putting your child in childcare is that you have to realise that your child will be doing things including having naps and having meals at the times you don't do it at home.

There are staffing issues here. He cannot be left alone, so are you suggesting he is put to sleep in the same room where other children are awake playing, singing,c eating snack, going outdoors? Or are you suggesting he has a member of staff to himself to sit in a room with him whilst he sleeps? This is impossible for a nursery. You need a nanny.

At 2 his naps would be starting to dwindle, he should be able to
go longer stretches some days and then maybe even miss a day. I think nap at 12 is sensible. I would leave it. Children are very adaptable. I don't get why if he is napping at 12 ,that you think the lashing out is to do with tiredness?