Time in lieu for travelling to work

[Snyder86]

Maybe someone can provide with some help or guidance.

I work for an online company where everyone works from home. Every couple of months the company does a company wide "get together" where they rent out a large accommodation and we are all expected to travel to this location and work together usually for 2/3 days.

The travel itself is reimbursed for mileage and any expenses. However travel time is not. We have a work meeting coming up in a couple of weeks and the location has been set at a whopping 6 hour drive from my home. After alot of persuasion the company has agreed to pay for 1 nights accommodation on the Sunday night so I can travel down on the Sunday afternoon. Instead of having to wake up at 2am to travel 6 hours in order to be onsite to work at 8am. However when we finish work on Wednesday 5pm. I'm expected to drive home for 6 hours after a full day work then be available to start the next day at 8am.

In my work contract it does state something along the lines of "you must be flexible as from time to time, you may be required to work reasonable additional hours for the proper and effective performance of your duties."

I think it is under this clause that they are saying that travel time is not reimbursable. However something about this seems inaccurate. All employees work from home, this isn't a choice. It's how the company runs, we don't have a work office as everything is based online. So my home is my fixed place of work. Surely travel to a compulsory meeting, if the mileage and expenses are covered than the travel time to and from the location should also be covered? I appreciate that in some contracts it says something along the lines of "additional work is not paid" when you are a salaried employee. However you can't be expected to work for free so in these instances you are given time back in lieu which is what I would have thought to be appropriate in my circumstances however I am unable to find any information to either support or dispute this.
It's a shot in the dark but maybe someone here has more of an idea as to whether I am out of line to ask for the 12 hours in total I will be driving to be given back in lieu.
Thanks in advance

I have never been in any (office/home-based) job where you would be expected to be at work at 8am the day after a work trip like this?

Whenever I have had to travel for work, all of my managers have said to start a couple of hours later/start at midday, or similar.

I wouldn't expect to get back every minute of time spent travelling, but I think it's normal to give some flexibility to acknowledge the amount of your own time you've spent engaged in a work event/travelling to it.

At the very least they should be giving everyone in the team the morning off when they know everyone is having to travel home the evening prior.

A member of my family WFH but is occasionally expected to travel, including abroad. They get travel expenses paid but not travel time.

I would expect accommodation the last night and travelling back in company the next day. I think I'd suck up the Sunday assuming that sometimes it will be closer

I think a company that cared about its people would allow the time back - if they don't, then it tells you what you as an employee mean to them.

In my company, occasional travel time is expected and wouldn't be given as time in lieu.
Given its only a couple of times a year, I think it would give a very poor impression of you as a "clock watcher" to your company.

The Dickensian 'I go to work on an hour's sleep if my wage lords demand it' brigade are out in force.

It's not at all reasonable to expect someone (unless they're really really senior/responsible, which, with apologies to the OP, I'm assuming she isn't) to arrive home after a 6-hour drive at about 11am and then turn up bushy-tailed at 8am the next day.
If I were a manager I'd rather give TOIL and have the staff member turn up on Monday afternoon rested and keen than see them at 8am, zombie-like after a long drive and a late night when they're unlikely to give of their best.

If you expect travel time why aren't you expecting to be paid for all the hours you're away from home?
What a bizarre question. The 'hours away from home' are work.

So you have to give 12 hours of your time in addition to the 2 day event), for free?

DH used to work for a company that required travel. Never got TOIL for it.

Wowzers, I must have worked for really nice organisations then. I used to travel long distances every couple of months for work and travel time was included as it's not your normal place of work. I'd be able to take it off as time in lieu. I probably wouldn't ever take the whole amount I was owed but I'd definitely have the majority & only didn't take the whole amount because they were nice to work for & I wasn't that worried.

I wouldn't expect time back for the Sunday overnight, but expecting someone to be in at 8am sharp if they're not getting home until after midnight goes way beyond a TOiL discussion into a duty of care one.
Depending on how busy I was at work I'd be telling not asking my Line Manager that I'd be in at 12 not 8 the next day.

I'd say that unless you are a highly paid exec then you should be paid. That's almost 2 working days. Pay for one day and one day of in lieu sounds reasonable if they are too tight to pay 2 days.

They'll think they are doing you a great favour by providing hotel accommodation. I know how some of these companies think.

I don't understand why there's all this talk of salaried roles being different? I have a "salaried role", but I am contracted for 37 hours a week. Is this unusual? I am a manager in a professional role, I keep track of all the time I work over (or under) my hours and then make sure I take TOIL if it builds up. But perhaps I just work for a decent employer? Their consideration of my own time as being important means that I am much more likely to be flexible when it's needed.

expecting someone to be in at 8am sharp if they're not getting home until after midnight goes way beyond a TOiL discussion into a duty of care one.

Thank you, that's what I was trying to say but badly!

I used to get paid for travel time to anywhere that wasn't my usual place of work.

Last time, i went four hours away from home - I got my travel costs paid for as well and I travelled down during my normal working day so I was was being paid for that too. The same happened on the way back - I travelled back during the working day (leaving the destination at lunchtime) so I wasn't out of pocket.

YANBU at all to ask.

I have to say I'm surprised by some of the replies here. I run a business where staff have to travel to client sites.

We have a rule where the first 45 minutes of each journey (i.e. each way) is expected to come out of the employee's time, but anything over and above that is counted as hours and they can take it back on TOIL later.

Difference is, maybe, that this is timesheeted and incorporated in to our fees to our client.

My work has the stingiest manager ever and he still said we shouldn't drive more than 2hrs for work and should train or taxi it.

TOIL was not official but everyone would do it unofficially as needed to recover from a trip.

I would expect to be paid for travel time or get it in lieu. For anything over half an hour. If it only happened occasionally I wouldn't be too bothered.

I should also say that 6 hours driving is exhausting, even if you had the time back. Is the train an alternative? Although I know some people enjoy driving!

I'm lucky to work for a public sector employer where we get TOIL, and also we aren't expected to drive unless there is no alternative. Given people travel from all over the country and we often meet in the middle it means those in Cornwall, Newcastle etc spend much more time than me travelling. It would be unfair if they just had to suck that up.

@simitra

As an academic presenting at international conferences we were automatically allowed time off in lieu before and after as "packing and preparation" and "travel" time. Less so for domestic travel.

I once flew back from Nepal with a young woman who had travelled onvards from China. The flight from Kathmandu alone was 11 hours and she would have been travelling 24 solid hours by the time we landed. We did not de-plane until 10pm and she expected to go into work the next day. When I urged her to take the day off she said she was quite new in the role and did not like to "make a fuss". I said well all the more important to begin as you mean to go on and not let your employer treat you like a door mat. Get your parent/partner to ring the company next day and tell them you are jet lagged and will be back at work on xx.

If you dont want to attend just be diplomatically ill. But dont mention travel time if you are going to do that.

I also work in a University, and do a fair amount of international travel in normal times. It's not unusual for us to work Mon-Fri, then leave for the Far East on a Saturday afternoon, so we are there on Sunday evening, ready to work on Monday. Similar coming back - but we'd normally try and clear our diaries to WAH/have the morning back, so you're not up early.

However, the positives are that I've been able to stay on in some fantastic places, only at the cost of additional hotel nights/spending money - and my flight home again is paid, as long as it's not really more than it would be coming home at the end of my work purposes. I've had holidays in Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Greece, Nepal, India, Switzerland, all with my flights pretty much covered.

Anyway... in your case OP, I'd have thought it was all reasonable, as long as you could start a bit late/at lunchtime, the day after you get back. Sometimes it's expected, and if you're salaried, sometimes you have to just suck it up. Sorry.

DH travels (or did pre covid) overseas a lot. Not for meetings but to go to labs and sites to look at mstierial connected with his job. It entailed getting to the airport on a Sunday or even Saturday if it was really long haul so he could be on site Monday morning. And the reverse coming home. At the beginning of his career he got time off in lieu. But that hasn't happened for a couple of decades.
I used to grouch about us losing a dozen or so weekends a year. So YABU

I think it is unlikely you will get paid, so you may have to just suck it up, maybe not so bad as it is only a few times a year.

I do see your point though, this sort of behaviour by employers is common place, after Covid it is understandable that employees are becoming more selective in this regard. Some employers don't deserve employees.

We would be reimbursed above and beyond what our usual commute is, ie if home to office is an hour, we would have 5 hours back as the 6 hour journey minus usual commute would be the 5. As you work from home and effectively your commute is zero, not sure. I suppose the caveat in your contract would legally mean they're fine but does sound an excessive distance.

Actually the more I think about OP, it is completely unreasonable to expect you to undertake a 6 hr drive after a full days conference and in fact unsafe.
I would email again showing your route and driving time and ask if either you can leave the conference early, or that the company pays for a room mid way for you to sleep in on the way back and you finish the journey in the morning.
I think there is a limit on how many miles a person is meant to drive in one day for work, but I can't lay my hands on it.

@MrsColon

I think a company that cared about its people would allow the time back - if they don't, then it tells you what you as an employee mean to them.

You're probably right, some companies see everything in financial terms - they'll pay you well, but you have to work/travel as necessary .

@PeonyTime. I've never worked in a position that offered overtime or time in lieu, neither has my DH. Sometimes a nice manager would let you come in late after travel, but it wasn't a company policy.
That's one reason why I'm currently self-employed, I get paid for all my time.

No company would reimburse you for travel time, only expenses incurred. It's just part of the job:..