Time in lieu for travelling to work

[Snyder86]

Maybe someone can provide with some help or guidance.

I work for an online company where everyone works from home. Every couple of months the company does a company wide "get together" where they rent out a large accommodation and we are all expected to travel to this location and work together usually for 2/3 days.

The travel itself is reimbursed for mileage and any expenses. However travel time is not. We have a work meeting coming up in a couple of weeks and the location has been set at a whopping 6 hour drive from my home. After alot of persuasion the company has agreed to pay for 1 nights accommodation on the Sunday night so I can travel down on the Sunday afternoon. Instead of having to wake up at 2am to travel 6 hours in order to be onsite to work at 8am. However when we finish work on Wednesday 5pm. I'm expected to drive home for 6 hours after a full day work then be available to start the next day at 8am.

In my work contract it does state something along the lines of "you must be flexible as from time to time, you may be required to work reasonable additional hours for the proper and effective performance of your duties."

I think it is under this clause that they are saying that travel time is not reimbursable. However something about this seems inaccurate. All employees work from home, this isn't a choice. It's how the company runs, we don't have a work office as everything is based online. So my home is my fixed place of work. Surely travel to a compulsory meeting, if the mileage and expenses are covered than the travel time to and from the location should also be covered? I appreciate that in some contracts it says something along the lines of "additional work is not paid" when you are a salaried employee. However you can't be expected to work for free so in these instances you are given time back in lieu which is what I would have thought to be appropriate in my circumstances however I am unable to find any information to either support or dispute this.
It's a shot in the dark but maybe someone here has more of an idea as to whether I am out of line to ask for the 12 hours in total I will be driving to be given back in lieu.
Thanks in advance

We reimburse for travel time. Employees are expected to stand the first half hour each way(or normal travel time from their home to our office) themselves but get paid at single time afterwards.

I had this with an old company I worked for. Several of us expected to attend a conference in another country (cant drive to it) and head office booked the flights. Not the direct flight which would have taken 4 hours from leaving work at lunch time to conference centre hotel all ready for the next day. No, they went for the cheapest option which included a 3.5hrs wait for a connecting flight in the middle after we had worked the full day. Didnt get into the hotel until after midnight. Was the same length of time on the way back.

I told my manager I was taking the time back in lieu, that they could have booked the direct flight but choose not too. They saved the money but we lost our own time. Wasnt happy but couldnt really argue against it.

As it's only occasional travel, and presumably most of the 6 whole-company get-togethers each year are held a lot closer to your area, and as they've agreed to pay for overnight accommodation the night before, you'd be unreasonable to kick up a fuss. Your contract specifies a need for some flexibility and this is one of those occasions when you need to show flexibility.

If you work from home I'm sure you can find ways to claw back that six hours if you really want to do it.

I once resigned from a part-time (18 hours pw) job when I turned out to be required to attend meetings in Huddersfield, Glasgow, London and Leeds each month and the travel time wasn't counted as working time. The shortest journey (to London) involved a total of 5 hours in a day. Glasgow was 14+ hours there and back on the train. The person in charge of the project expected me (and all the others involved) to travel on our own time, not the project's. Our mass resignation put an end to that: our contracts were swiftly changed to make travel time paid. But, OP, that was weekly meetings. Not once every eight weeks.

My employer are very reasonable but wouldnt reimburse for something like this, on the basis it's a one off.

I travelled to asia for work, I flew out sunday afternoon and went straight to the office from the airport, flew back through Friday night and got home Saturday after lunch. I did not get any TOIL.

@waybill but a daily commute of an hour each way adds up to 10 hours a week, which is of a similar order. I know it's not the same thing.

I work from home.

I get any Sunday travel time as time off in lieu. We usually travel back during the day, if not, I get that time too. I'd be expected at work as normal the next day.

As a one off I’d do it and probably not say anything assuming they are generally ok re time off for dentist etc. Swings and roundabouts. If you were challenging it I think your best angle is too short time between shifts - supposed to be 11 hours rest. Plus risk assessment angle - is it safe to expect an employee to work 9 hours then drive 6 hours when tired. If you crashed on way home killing or injuring yourself and others potentially your employers could come under scrutiny in terms of an Employer’s liability claim.

I am a salaried manager (but my contract specifies a certain number of hours per week, don't most?) If I have to travel further than my daily journey to work, then the extra time is generally counted as TOIL. Seems the fairest way to do it, to me, but there are always a few on here who want a race to the bottom.

For those trying to argue about the evening time, you are free to spend that as you please, as you normally do, so that's no different than your usual working day.

And it doesn't matter that they pay for overnight accommodation, how could they not!? If it's a one off or an irregular occurrence, then that's even more reason for employers being able to stand the TOIL hit.

When I had to occasionally travel in my previous job I could claim the travel time that was longer than my usual commute. Not sure how it would work with you having no usual commute, I'd expect paying or having time off in lieu for the travel time personally

I get half a day's extra leave if we have to "work" (eat canapes and drink free wine) at the event of an evening.

But it's the only place I've worked where I have, and it's bloody brilliant.

I'm also quite surprised at this. I travel a lot for work and we always get travel time allocated for TOIL, 5 is a day.

I've been given time in lieu for travel time before. For example I had to leave the house at 8am one Sunday to travel internationally for my role. I was given a whole day in lieu back for that.

However you need to check your HR manual, it will be laid out in there what you are and are not able to claim back.

I wouldn’t expect to get paid for the time.

However, I wouldn’t be able to do the full day of work and then the six hour drive into the night. It’s just beyond what I can handle physically. I certainly wouldn’t be capable of showing up to work the next morning it I did arrive home safely. I would push back on that aspect of it. I would either want to leave earlier in the day on the last day or stay on a hotel the last night and drive back the next day.

If it’s a 6 hour drive why can’t you fly? Or get a train?

To me it sounds a really badly thought up plan. Either everyone else has a easy travel distance and you should at the very least be allowed to stay over Wednesday night and travel home on Thursday, paid as a working day. Or if the place is remote and many are travelling why did they not run from Monday lunchtime to Thursday lunchtime to allow for travel?

Do they realise that not all people can travel on a Sunday?
I would not be able to get up at 2am and drive for 6 hours to then do a full day, and I definitely could not drive safely for 6 hours leaving at 5pm after a full days' work.

I am a business manager, paid well and would not accept that. DH is a very senior manager and paid very well, he does travel (when permitted) but any weekend travel is always TOIL and if he gets home late he won't necessarily go in early the next day. In addition whilst he is expected to fly around the world they would never expect him to drive for 6 hours before a full day meeting or to do this after a full day.

www.allianz.co.uk/news-and-insight/insight-and-expertise/driving-when-tired.html
If you scroll down to employers responsibilities it covers your exact scenario of travelling to place you don’t usually work.

Working times directive states you should have 11 hours between shifts, so they can not expect you to work at 8am unless YOU choose to opt out of the WTD

I don’t have the answer but I’d get this back at my place. They’d say just start later the next day or knock off early on Friday / when convenient for you and when the the team to cover.

I think there are a lot of things to be considered here. For a start, what kind of work is it in the first place because if you're on minimum wage for example, being paid by the hour, then yes, I'd expect to be reimbursed in some way vs chief marketing officer of a FTSE100 company.

Having said that, when I worked in a big corporate, while we certainly didn't get overtime or time in lieu on a formal basis, the company DID see it as their responsibility to make the experience as painless as possible. So, in a situation like yours, we absolutely would be offered the hotel on the Sunday night and on the Thursday morning no one would expect us to be at our desks bright and breezy at our standard 8am. I used to travel to the Middle East quite a lot, usually on overnight flights landing at 6am local and I'd get a hotel room booked from the night before so I could shower or even nap, and no one blinked if the first day in the office I left a bit earlier. Similarly, on the way back, my flight would usually land early London time and I'd either work from home or go into the office but head home early. That was considered perfectly normal.

My travel time for meetings, training etc has never been covered. However, it would be frowned upon in our company to drive for 6 hours at the end of a working day so they would undoubtedly agree to you staying over that night, or travelling part way and staying over. If i was giving up my Sunday afternoon I'd be finishing early on the Friday!
Can you not get a train or fly if it's that far?

As they're paying for an overnight stay, I don't think you can expect time in lieu. As PP's have said, people often travel for work at the weekend and don't get the time.

My DH, for example, is flying over 6 hours on a Sunday in a couple of weeks, for meetings beginning on Monday. All his expenses are covered, but he won't be getting time in lieu for missing out on Sunday. If you can negotiate it, great, but it's not standard practice, I'm afraid.

My job scenario parallels yours, OP. I can ask for (and will always get) hotel accommodation and I'm expected to travel in work time, not my own. That said, work time is often spent doing work and I can't realistically spend too much work time travelling as I'm busy.

It's not ideal but it's part of the arrangement. I don't mind it myself but I can see how this is awkward for you. If it's not too frequent I'd not make a fuss and I'd never recommend 'work to rule'. That's the beginning of the end.

Have never had it paid, but have had unofficial TOIL when travelling transatlantically over a weekend to be able to do normal office hours at the destination because generally I've worked for mangers who had discretion and common sense. The exact form depended on my manager at the time, but it has varied from an explicit "don't come into the office tomorrow", or some late starts/early finishes, or WFH with a light day - ie no meetings and just keep an eye on email for urgent issues.

In your case, as it's UK travel I'd expect that you'd have to swallow the travel for a regular meeting. However, you have nothing to lost by discussing with your boss and proposing a later start the day after your return.

What does your contract say is your place of work?

On another note, I’d not feel safe driving 6 hours after a full day of work. 3 or maybe 4 yes but 6 is a long long drive.