To think the ambitions for Net Carbon Zero are utterly impossible for most households?

[backoffice]

I’ve been looking at some of the suggestions that are supposed to be “normalised” for consumers to adopt as we move towards lower carbon: heat pumps, solar power, electric vehicles etc.

To adopt any of these is going to cost a family thousands of pounds! Not to mention the practicalities of e.g. heat pumps in tiny houses with little gardens/small roof. It seems utterly unreasonable to expect consumers to adopt these technologies unless they have a lot of money and large properties, but it’s basically what the government seems to expect people to do. AIBU?

It is not impossible, but the government will have to do a lot more to help, both financially and with regulations and technology development.

I am factoring the cost of those improvements in any future property I buy. If a property is below D, in the future it may not be mortgageable, there was a piece in thisismoney about it, www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-9271153/amp/Could-homes-energy-efficiency-rating-stop-getting-future-mortgage.html.

Flats get a bad rep (I own one) and any future property I buy is likely to be a flat (London) so hopefully I can split the cost of improvements with my neighbours.

The government should give grants for this but knowing them, they probably wouldn't.

*above D!

I think most advocacy groups acknowledge that and say government subsidies will be necessary

The government is perfectly capable of supporting the change . We can afford huge projects like HS2 and Trident (c £150billion) but Boris is less keen on attending the opening of Mr and Mrs Smith's new heat pump. New homes should be built to the highest standards (although the Tories want to protect developers profits), insulation/double glazing of existing properties should be very heavily subsidised. Heat pumps and solar added where practical. If we use all the practical tools it will make a massive difference before you get to the "harder" houses.

I should add that the Govt is very keen on making these changes "your problem". However real progress is made with big decisions on tax, spending and legislation. Not a facebook post from the council asking you to consider doing the school run on a bike

No, mass electric vehicle ownership won't work. Too costly for many and still produces a considerable amount of pollution during manufacture. They also don't solve congestion, so you still need to build new roads (causing more pollution).

We need to wean ourselves off our automobile addiction.

I havnt figured out how people who park on the street are going to charge their electric car yet, and that is the farthest ahead of all those technologies.

Given how few people even put out recycling, yet have overflowing bins on my street (its bin day and recycling day today) I'm not sure many people will do things that involve cash, since they dont bother with the stuff that is free.

As an aside, how does a smart meter save the environment? I still havnt got my head round that one. Surely it just uses resources to make, and then just tells me I use lots of electricity if I switch something on with a heating element in, less energy if I switch stuff off I'm not using?

Electric cars will become the norm over time after the ban on new petrol/diesel cars comes in though it'll take a decade r so for them to replace all cats as the older 2nd/3rd hand petrol/diesel cars get scrapped.
As for heat pumps they are slowly getting cheaper and I can see people switching to them when they need to replace their central heating system anyway.
Whilst I can see all new builds having solar panels, and all the other energy saving measures built in I have trouble with the idea that home owners are going to have to pay 10s of thousands to retro fit their homes or loose value in their homes especially when the only affordable way for most people to have solar panels is to rent there roof out makes it almost impossible to sell your house

@PeonyTime I’ve thought that about smart meters too! I don’t know the answer!?!

Yes it feels like the govt are saying it’s up to consumers. I think they might let energy bills run out of control as a means of forcing action instead - which will lead to huge social justice issues.

Cars not cats

It needs proper support and funding from the government, and urgently.

not impossible
expensive, yes.
where I live gas composition will change soon. we know that our combi boiler will not be able to handle it. so we will have to replace it with one that can or switch to another system which will be roughly the same cost wise.
there will be grants and loans avaibable but those are means tested and we would not be eligible.

if gas & electricity prices stay high or rise even higher then a new heating system will pay for itself quickly.

The green industry is already moving towards hydrogen rather than electric. It's really the only viable alternative. Allegedly my new boiler can convert to hydrogen. No need to dig up your garden and ruin your house. Heat pumps are a nightmare. You need space, and also your whole house needs to be reinsulated and have air circulation in place for it to work properly.

Hybrid Hydrogen vehicles (and aircraft) will eventually be the solution too.

As an aside, how does a smart meter save the environment? I still havnt got my head round that one. Surely it just uses resources to make, and then just tells me I use lots of electricity if I switch something on with a heating element in, less energy if I switch stuff off I'm not using?
They enable time-of-use pricing. This makes electricity really cheap off peak and really expensive when demand is high.

@BigWoollyJumpers

The green industry is already moving towards hydrogen rather than electric. It's really the only viable alternative. Allegedly my new boiler can convert to hydrogen. No need to dig up your garden and ruin your house. Heat pumps are a nightmare. You need space, and also your whole house needs to be reinsulated and have air circulation in place for it to work properly.

Hybrid Hydrogen vehicles (and aircraft) will eventually be the solution too.

Where is all this hydrogen coming from? Most hydrogen production at the moment is from fossil fuels.

@DdraigGoch

No, mass electric vehicle ownership won't work. Too costly for many and still produces a considerable amount of pollution during manufacture. They also don't solve congestion, so you still need to build new roads (causing more pollution).

We need to wean ourselves off our automobile addiction.

Yup, we will have to become more anti-car as a nation. Of course some are necessary but people are far too reliant - just look at the threads where people are utterly appalled at people suggesting teenagers can walk to school in a bit of rain. I walk past a studenty area half an hour from the university with loads of buses and a brilliant light rail system, but the student houses will have 3, 4, 5 cars outside them. Ten years ago it would have been unusual for there to be more than 1.

If they want me to do these things, they can pay for it. I'm not wasting my money on that, I've got you know, higher bills to pay now. Will not be able to produce the money needed unless I start shitting it.

I can’t understand how this will work on older homes where some of the measures required will likely be detrimental to the property. For example a Victorian detached house with solid brick walls, lime rendered / plastered to ensure the house can breathe as originally intended. Rooms are too small for internal insulation, external insulation - as well as being prohibitively expensive - will alter the properties ability to breathe. Ground source heat pump extremely expensive and likely not enough land to install this, air source heat pump not recommended for this age property as it lacks the extreme insulation required for it to work effectively (see above).
In addition loft insulation is recommended to be a wool product, again to help the house breathe, is this more expensive option going to be covered by the government?
Will this house ever get a rating above D? Therefore will all properties from this era become unsaleable?

@FreedomFaith what if it's a requirement of your mortgage? I see that as the only way they can 'enforce it', posted a link upthread.

If the government actually gave a shit about any of this, they would have introduced legislation years ago requiring all new builds to have eco-saving tech as part of them.

@Theteapotsbrokenspout that would be very strange as currently Victorian homes carry a premium at least where I live in London!

'BEIS recommended that lenders consider energy efficiency as part of their mortgage assessment criteria, and review rules to encourage green mortgages.

It also proposed that lenders be encouraged to offer additional borrowing to existing customers to improve the energy performance of their homes'

Humph.

We're never going to bulldoze all the old housing stock. 5 million properties were built pre 1919.

No one has come up for a solution for electric vehicles where there is limited off street parking.

Public transport is heinously expensive and ridiculously fragmented with nearly 30 different rail operators across the U.K.

There needs to be enormous infrastructure investment and a complete about face to renationalise all the different elements that need to work together.

I can't see it happening in my lifetime. We have a Tory government which doesn't care and a Labour Party that isn't fit for purpose.

Absolutely agree @FeatheredHope there is a new build estate here (built over the last two years) with many prestigious south facing properties which could have had solar panels included in the build.