Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

To think it wouldn't be so bad if he paid once in a while...

61 replies

moneyme · 29/09/2021 01:00

My boyfriend is from a culture that’s a little more traditional and men are expected to pay for everything.

I’m fiercely financially independent and always have been. I was married for 15 years and was the main earner. As such, I’ve always asserted that I don’t expect to be paid for by him and I know he finds that refreshing.

This is my first time ever dating someone who earns more than me (and he has infinitely more disposable income) but we still always take turns paying or split the bill.

However BF is very generous, particularly with him female friends (of which he has many), and sometimes I feel decidedly un-feminist about it all.

I can’t help feel a bit of a jealous twinge when he says he’s taking a female friend out to buy her dinner.

This week he went out with a mixed group of friends and commented the bill was very expensive and that one of the ladies had offered to help pay but ‘obviously’ the guys refused.
I couldn’t help but comment ‘funny…you never refuse when I offer to help pay….’.

I know this is a product of me absolutely insisting that I don’t expect to be paid for. He’s actually super generous and always offers to pay for random things (I’ll see something I like and he’ll say ‘why don’t I buy it for you?’), and I’m always super embarrassed and say no thank you. I’ve never once been able to bring myself to accept, although I’d love to.

Likewise I always offer to split the bill when the bill comes for dinner, and he generally accepts.

However, once in a while, I wouldn’t mind him taking me out the way he does with his friends and insisting on paying the bill. Who doesn’t want to be treated a little?!

Not sure how (or if…) to do anything about this or just to accept that I created this dynamic and just to be proud of myself for my financial independence and the fact my relationship is so balanced and happy.

OP posts:

GloomAndDoom · 29/09/2021 08:27

I agree @PurpleDaisies that bit would make me uncomfortable. It's very insulting to their female friend and is a dominating power play.

Wondergirl100 · 29/09/2021 08:27

Can I say I find it really gross that a group of women would let male friends pay for them?! Don't you feel that way?

I literally cannot imagine letting male friends pay because they are men. If a good friend earnt a lot more and said hey let me pay you are skint, then totally fine now and again - that's what friends are for - but not BECAUSE I'm female.

I think in a relationship it's very different - he wants to treat you now and again because he can afford to and you hve a close relationship.

I would find it deeply wierd and unattractive that he was paying randomly for female friends because they are female. sorry.

Wondergirl100 · 29/09/2021 08:27

also 'wouldn't LET' - yuck.

cinnamonswir1 · 29/09/2021 08:27

OP, my husband is from a culture where it’s seen as embarrassing to let women pay. He was also a much higher earner (banking and entrepreneur) so I couldn’t compete from day one. Thinking back to when we were dating, I just accepted the way he is and occasionally, did something back like booked the theatre without him knowing, etc.

I think if you are insisting on paying your way all the time, he is probably just humouring you, to be honest.

The good news is, if and when you have children, he will see it as his role to totally support you and there will be none if this telling you to get back to work before you’re ready (as you see so much on MN) or making you feel insecure about not working. You won’t need to worry about any of that. The role is a mother is massively respected, not sidelined, and this is just how it is.

GloomAndDoom · 29/09/2021 08:27

Can I say I find it really gross that a group of women would let male friends pay for them?! Don't you feel that way? I read it as the men wouldn't allow the women to pay.

cinnamonswir1 · 29/09/2021 08:30

Having said this, he wasn’t taking female ‘friends’ out all the time. Not sure what all that’s about or why he feels the need to tell you about it.

Cocomarine · 29/09/2021 08:31

@GloomAndDoom

I agree *@PurpleDaisies* that bit would make me uncomfortable. It's very insulting to their female friend and is a dominating power play.

Yep.

And not only is he indulging in that, but he’s also making damn sure he tells his girlfriend all about it. There’s got to be a reason for that.

PurpleDaisies · 29/09/2021 08:32

And if the op wanted to go back to work? Would LET her? What about a fair division of housework? My experience is that men who treat their women like princesses who will break if they pay for anything expect them to fulfill the traditional little woman role everywhere else.

Cocomarine · 29/09/2021 08:35

“The good news is, if and when you have children, he will see it as his role to totally support you and there will be none if this telling you to get back to work before you’re ready (as you see so much on MN) or making you feel insecure about not working. You won’t need to worry about any of that. The role is a mother is massively respected, not sidelined, and this is just how it is.“

Alternatively:

The good bad news is, if and when you have children, he will see it as his role to totally support you and there will be none if this telling supporting you to get back to work before you’re ready (as you see so much on MN) or making you feel insecure about not valued for working. You won’t will need to worry about any all of that. The role is a mother that isn’t your view of a mother is massively respected, not sidelined, expected of you without choice and this is just how it is.

Disfordarkchocolate · 29/09/2021 08:37

I don't think you can have it both ways. However, in a long-term relationship 50/50 is hard to maintain when one is high earner. Have you though about splitting nights out etc based on a proportion of income?

cinnamonswir1 · 29/09/2021 08:38

PurpleDaisies - respecting the role of a mother to his own children is not demeaning you as a ‘little woman.’ It’s a vital role! As for housework, no. He never wanted me as his wife doing housework all the time. Why would he?

PurpleDaisies · 29/09/2021 08:39

@cinnamonswir1

Totally missed the point.

Original poster

moneyme · 29/09/2021 08:58

This has gone off on quite a tangent so I should clarify he doesn't significantly out-earn me, he just has far fewer financial commitments. That said, I don't feel that's a reason he should pay.

We're both high earners. The difference is marginal but in the past I've out-earned my exes by 4 times or more. So I'm absolutely used to paying for everything and find it really alien to do anything else.

I didn't articulate that in my first post and probably should've done!

OP posts:

cinnamonswir1 · 29/09/2021 09:05

I’d be less worried about the dynamics of who pays for what in your relationship frankly, but more concerned that he feels the need to tell you that he is paying for general female friends / acquaintances in groups. What’s that about?

My husband (and most men I know) wouldn’t insist on paying for general women in groups out and about . Unless it’s business? Or his mum or female relatives? But they would want to pay on a date or in a relationship. It’s totally different.

Triffid1 · 29/09/2021 09:09

Oh please, he didn't "refuse" to let the women pay. They let him and his male friends pay. I've had male friends try to insist on paying. There have been times I've graciously accepted and other times I've laughed and said, "of course not, don't be silly". **

I do suspect that he comes from a background that feels as he has more disposable income, he should pay more. And frankly, I'd agree with that. As other posters have suggested, a casual, "ok, thank you, that would be lovely." now and again wouldn't hurt you.

** also, not true so much now, but when younger, my male friends OFTEN paid for me and other women because inevitably, they were all working in IT and in banks and law firms and somehow all the women were in lower paying jobs. So many of them would kindly offer to pay, or buy the wine or whatever because they all knew that they had MUCH more disposable income than we did. Which is a whole different feminist issue!

WimpoleHat · 29/09/2021 09:12

I have a very generous male friend. He’s single; I’m married with kids. He often comes to our home, where I cook/entertain him and so, if we go out, he will insist on picking up the tab for lunch. He has another female friend and has comment that she will never let a man buy her dinner. He has said he finds it a little bit irksome (as sometimes it’s a nice/easy way to say thanks, or congratulations or whatever), but that it’s her stance and he respects it. So he wouldn’t now offer to pick up the bill for lunch with her, precisely because she’s told him not to.

Your BF is just doing similar; he’s respected what you’ve asked, even though it maybe isn’t how he’d like to do things. But it’s not really his fault when, having told him you don’t want him to do something, he doesn’t do it….!

Cocomarine · 29/09/2021 09:39

@Triffid1 I don’t think that’s fair to say the woman let him pay in the dinner situation. If he - and his friends - are being really pushy then they can make you feel like you’re being a dick, making a scene, ungracious.

I went on a first date with a guy and had just such a conversation whilst we waited for the bill where he just made the whole situation really awkward. I stuck to my guns though. Then he went to the loo and - you guessed it - intercepted the bill and paid.

I told him in no uncertain terms that he’d made me feel awkward to begin with, and now had just gone right over my wishes not to “treat” me, but because doing what he wanted was more important to him then respecting my wishes. Which was the opposite of treating someone, really. No second date for him!

Bluntness100 · 29/09/2021 09:43

I think it’s very fair to say the women let the men pay, they hardly threatened them or became obnoxious from what the op has said when they said they’d pay.

And yes I find it distasteful too, and can’t get my head round the simpering posters saying but gosh they wouldn’t let those poor ickle women pay.

Triffid1 · 29/09/2021 09:47

[quote Cocomarine]@Triffid1 I don’t think that’s fair to say the woman let him pay in the dinner situation. If he - and his friends - are being really pushy then they can make you feel like you’re being a dick, making a scene, ungracious.

But - I very much didn’t “let” him, and I can see that if you’re a woman trying to stand your ground and a group of men are over riding you, it can get really awkward. Because added to this “men pay” shit is also the shit that “women don’t make people uncomfortable”.[/quote]
Okay, I can see that. And I'd have a similar response to you with the first date situation (and NOTHING is more annoying that someone paying on the sly, nor more patronising). Good work on binning him for being disrespectful and obnoxious.

Having said that, certainly, in my circle, men may well offer to pay but it really is genuinely in situations where they know they have more income (eg my good friend who was recently single, no kids and I'd just started my own business!) and if I decline, they might offer a second time then will graciously back down. I am not sure I'd want to be friends with a man who acted more aggressively than that.

GloomAndDoom · 29/09/2021 09:48

simpering posters nice. I'm not simpering. I've been in situations like @Cocomarine and some guys really do make it so awkward if you refuse to let them play. It's a weird power trip.

Original poster

moneyme · 29/09/2021 09:49

I don't think there was anything untoward in them refusing the female friends' offer of paying. I think they were just being gentlemanly.

I guess I'm just wondering where the gentlemanliness is when I offer to pay!

And likely the answer is that I've probably insisted so many times that he thinks he's being gentlemanly in respecting my wishes.

OP posts:

honeylulu · 29/09/2021 09:54

I get what you mean OP and I am similar. Me and my husband keep our disposable income separate. We do split "going out" costs fairly- I pay more often or a higher proportion as I earn more and I do insist on that.

Though when he goes out for a meal or drink with his sister, she expects him to pay for everything (just because he's a man) and he does! Then irrationally I feel annoyed that my husband treats his sister but not his wife, even though I prefer to pay my way. I suppose I feel that I wish other women were "better feminists" and stopped perpetuating the idea that women are secondary and need to be looked after by men. (I have probably put that very awkwardly and I'm sorry if I offend anyone.)

As PPs have said, a man with the "women need to be looked after" mindset will likely expect the wife to take on a traditional homemaker/primary childcarer role, mental load and all. That might suit some women but definitely not others i.e. me!

PurpleDaisies · 29/09/2021 09:57

I don't think there was anything untoward in them refusing the female friends' offer of paying. I think they were just being gentlemanly.

Why is who pays dependent on who has a penis? Keeping those stupid sex based roles going is holding all women back. We can’t just pick and choose which ones benefit us and keep them. To ge treated equally at work but not at dinner. This wasn’t even a date situation. The women should have had more respect than to have accepted and the men shouldn’t have been insisting on paying for women.

PurpleDaisies · 29/09/2021 09:59

And likely the answer is that I've probably insisted so many times that he thinks he's being gentlemanly in respecting my wishes.

You would prefer him to think no means no until I insist a bit more?

GloomAndDoom · 29/09/2021 10:01

I guess I'm just wondering where the gentlemanliness is when I offer to pay! but you've been insisting on paying your own way?

So it's what you want? You can't insist on paying for yourself then get upset when he doesnt insist on paying for you. It's up to you to decide your own views on it but they don't see consistent.

Flip

1 2 3

Swipe left for the next trending thread