OK, this isn't funny any more. Where's the army?

[Orangejuicemarathoner]

One quarter of staff and students late to school this morning, and 10% didn't get there at all. It has been announced that, excepting physical disability, any student within 4 miles or adult within 6 miles will be expected to walk in, but Its expected to be worse tomorrow with a good chance we will be closed by Wednesday.

AA reporting over 100 "incidents" on the road within a 10 mile radius of the school - mostly roads blocked, and mostly by queues outside petrol stations.

I struggled to get home by bike, because of the chaos on the roads - I got off my bike and walked several miles of it.

I called in at a supermarket on the way home. The shelves were more than three quarters empty. No bread or milk. So I'm sitting here drinking black tea planning rice for dinner instead of cheese on toast.

I know its not a catastrophe that I spent an extra hour getting home, and dont have milk in my tea, but what is that saying about the state we are in?

AIBU to say the army should be called in. What have we got an army for? Surely, an organisation of thousands of fit, capable, organised individuals, with vehicles and capacity and skills in logistics is exactly what we need to be utilised in this situation right here right now.

PS, is it ok to feed dog food to cats? does anyone know?

@notimagain

If they got higher wages - and access to badly needed affordable housing - they'd be able to afford the increased costs.

True, but that’s not going to happen short term in the UK and yet it’s become fashionable (with good reason) to call for Drivers T&Cs to be improved to attract people to the job……the cost of doing that will be hitting people’s’ pockets obvious well before any government sorts out affordable housing.

As one or two pps have pointed the balance in many other countries is different…basic necessities, including food in the supermarkets can often be more expensive than the UK but housing costs are generally lower…and I have no idea if you could ever shift the balance towards that model in the UK, or even if there would be popular support for doing so,

Yes. I've posted before about the benefits of a higher tax, good essential services, (including housing and healthcare) model. Scandinavia, for example.

We can absolutely shift the balance. If we wanted to. Although not if we obediently swallow the defeatist 'we can't' line. We've done it before. It's perfectly possible.

I don't believe it is as unpopular with the public as is often claimed by those with an agenda not to change.

I also disagree that wanting fair wages and working conditions is a new ('fashionable' thing. I accept that perhaps it's slightly newer for some wrt affordable secure housing. For a long time it mainly affected the southeast - the capital of homelessness, London, in particular (165,000 homeless there). Now that the problem is spreading across the UK and people can see the indirect consequences eg. shortage of essential workers, opinion is changing.

Which is true. But long term reform means serious fiscal reform - bigger taxes for multinationals and high income people which no conservative government is prepared to do.

I disagree. They will if they have to. And they're already showing signs of wanting to. Some of the back benches won't like it but even they can see the dire consequences of the balance swinging too far.

The change may not come from altruistism but it will come. Because, pragmatism.

Going back in time, many - probably most of our major changes - the creation of the welfare state, the NHS, public schooling - that improved quality of life for the masses including the poor, was motivated by pragmatism far more than altruism.

Quite apart from anything else, it actually saves money.

What is it with people thinking the army are the solution to every bloody problem?! The last time the government claimed the army were going to be brought to fill ‘back office police functions’. As if there’s loads of police officers shuffling paper clips about that anyone can walk in off the street and do?? The office function for police officers usually means a detective which takes years of training and the requirement to be a warranted officer. Would you want a soldier investigating a rape or a homicide?

unravellingtheratsnest.org/politics/petrol-can-we-get-the-army-in-to-drive-tankers-and-essar-whats-it-all-about/?fbclid=IwAR0QexWCCvsinTCM5R9_iXLLjtmA3gUKhytsuvhV4xDp3dM0Qo0hqRi3UhY

Please read this on why this is yet more utter drivel from this incompetent government whilst you’re drinking your black tea and wondering why we are in this stupid position.

To those who say ‘it’s just idiots panicking’ well yes, partly it is. But it’s because no one has a blind bit of faith in the competence of those who are leading us. When Boris Johnson’s mouth is open you can fairly reliably assume that he’s lying. Therefore when he’s telling the country not to panic the logical conclusion is that they will be rushing out to buy petrol because they cannot be trusted.

To those who say ‘it’s just idiots panicking’ well yes, partly it is. But it’s because no one has a blind bit of faith in the competence of those who are leading us. When Boris Johnson’s mouth is open you can fairly reliably assume that he’s lying. Therefore when he’s telling the country not to panic the logical conclusion is that they will be rushing out to buy petrol because they cannot be trusted.

And this is what happens when Conservatives elect a known liar as their leader and then 13.2 million vote for him. He may have some good qualities - I've never seen any and I've never thought he was funny, but that's beside the point - but even his supporters acknowledge how untrustworthy he is. So how on earth can he lead in a crisis, when people need to be able to depend on him telling the truth?

I’m in East Surrey & there’s no petrol station within a 5 mile radius of me with any fuel. Local supermarkets are also showing signs of running low on essentials - pasta/rice/baby products. This Govt. don’t give a shiny shit about us. Evidenced by the state we find ourselves in. Yes people don’t help the situation by panicking but I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. No-one trusts those in power to do anything constructive or genuinely thoughtful to serve the people who put them there. And let’s not forget, pretty much half the population didn’t vote for this Govt. or Brexit.

It’s a shitshow

@RIPIgglePiggle

What is it with people thinking the army are the solution to every bloody problem?! The last time the government claimed the army were going to be brought to fill ‘back office police functions’. As if there’s loads of police officers shuffling paper clips about that anyone can walk in off the street and do?? The office function for police officers usually means a detective which takes years of training and the requirement to be a warranted officer. Would you want a soldier investigating a rape or a homicide?

unravellingtheratsnest.org/politics/petrol-can-we-get-the-army-in-to-drive-tankers-and-essar-whats-it-all-about/?fbclid=IwAR0QexWCCvsinTCM5R9_iXLLjtmA3gUKhytsuvhV4xDp3dM0Qo0hqRi3UhY

Please read this on why this is yet more utter drivel from this incompetent government whilst you’re drinking your black tea and wondering why we are in this stupid position.

To those who say ‘it’s just idiots panicking’ well yes, partly it is. But it’s because no one has a blind bit of faith in the competence of those who are leading us. When Boris Johnson’s mouth is open you can fairly reliably assume that he’s lying. Therefore when he’s telling the country not to panic the logical conclusion is that they will be rushing out to buy petrol because they cannot be trusted.

Such ignorance, not surprised though I'm not sure what most people think the armed forces do.

Yes. I've posted before about the benefits of a higher tax, good essential services, (including housing and healthcare) model. Scandinavia, for example.

They also have contributions based, not needs based welfare systems. The problem we have with our needs based system is that net contributors feel that they are just handing over money to net takers but don't get anything themselves. This is why it was a bad idea to remove child benefit from those earning 50k plus a year. Those that are contributing must feel that they have a stake in the welfare state in order for them to be in favour of funding it.

I would give my right arm for a higher tax, good essential services model in the UK.
I fear our government is not in the least bit pragmatic though - if they have any shred ofpragmatism, they've kept it very well hidden.

Queued for almost an hour this am to get diesel. I was one of the lucky few before all sold out

Got some unleaded after work as was on less than a quarter of a tank. BP garage had a small queue and a £30 limit per customer which seems like a sensible idea.

@Tealightsandd - you live in a cuckoo land if you believe what you are saying.
Starting with Blair - this is not Blair's problem. This is a problem of the British who openly voted for something that offered them free platform to finally show how racist and insular they are.
They're not different from the racist Eastern Europeans at all. Scratch the thin civilised veneer and you will find a tiny insular racist being underneath who believes that everything foreign is inferior. Except for curry of course, but you have to eat it with chips.
Britain is getting what they voted for. Tories, Brexit, Corbyn who can't see beyond his copy of Stalin's Collected Works.
Are you saying that let's say Poles or Romanians were priced out of London so they moved outside of London and took people's housing and jobs? Blair is to blame because he encouraged young people go to universities, thus not taking up manual jobs? That's an absolute bollocks. There are people who are talented academically, there are people who aren't. Will there be pressure now by the Tories to discourage young people from working classes to go to the university so they can be kept for the elite who can afford the studies?
Don't blame it on foreigners. The whole of Britain benefited from immigrants works and skills. And, apparently, they were not cheap and unskilled as the word on the British street is. Most of them were qualified professionals who came to Britain in search of a better life. They were carers, HGV drivers, plumbers, GPs etc.
I was offered a well-paid job in the UK myself. It was just a year after Brexit and I said no immediately, even though the paycheck looked great. No way I would be treated as a second-class citizen by a bunch of rich elitists and be dependent on the decisions of people who never behaved like humans in their life.

Gosh. Where do you live.? I went shopping today and stopped for petrol on the way. Thought the scaremongery was only on telly.!? Nothing changed here.

You obviously haven't read my posts properly EerieSilence

Nothing you write can make it ok to exploit workers - British or migrant.

Don't blame it on foreigners.

I know that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are Scottish, but for now whatever Nicola Sturgeon wants, they're not foreigners. Scotland is still, at present, part of the UK. And David Cameron,Theresa May aren't foreigners either. Nor is Boris. He did used to have dual US nationality but was still British and anyway he's given his US citizenship up.

Like I said but you ignored. Unlimited freedom of movement is fine - as long as there is at the same time investment in the necessary additional infrastructure, housing, and public services that increased demand from a growing population requires AND protection of employee wages and working conditions.

Blair failed to do that. As have all his successors.

All fine here. Petrol available, supermarket shelves stocked. No massive queues blocking any roads.

Supermarket shelves where I live are full, no queues outside any petrol stations today. Where are you

In the words of Angela Rayner, 'Tory scum'.
That's all that needs to be said.

This situation is not the governments fault . It is the media's fault . BP said they were short at a couple of petrol stations but it would soon be sorted . The news media have now blown this up out of all proportion saying that there are queues at the pumps and people are struggling to buy fuel . Of course they are ! People are now panic buying because of what the media are reporting . If the media were to stop it would settle down .

In case this hasn’t already been answered. I’m not a vet but I vaguely remembered something about not feeding dog food to cats so did some internet research.
Seems the formulation is very different because dogs and cats perceive scents and flavors differently and have different nutritional needs. Advice I saw was that an occasional meal would do no harm ( so don’t panic if you’ve run out of cat food) but shouldn’t be fed dog food for long periods.
Hope the petrol/transport situation gets resolved soon for you.

Stolen milk is the real issue here!
Forced pregnancies, separation from babies at birth, imprisonment and having your milk stolen from you are all really bad compared to heavy traffic!

Actually driving fuel tankers is ( or was) quite well paid, and you need to do courses and exams.
Regarding the lorry shortage and Brexit, how did we cope before then? The EU drivers only came over really in the mid 2000s. So who drive the lorries before this, we didn’t have these problems then...

Good grief. The army are doing their actual jobs. Yes they can deploy a small contingent to drive tankers but only the ones who are qualified to do so. They aren’t sitting around doing nothing in the interim waiting for you to need milk for your tea. Politics etc aside (lots of opinions on this already) who the hell are you to decide what the army’s job is? Go and make yourself another cup of black tea and be on your way.

The current issue with HGV drivers isn't because of Brexit. It's been known it's coming for years. Ageing workforce and declining conditions for workers (lack of infrastructure) has been leading to this for years - the fact that there are circa 100,000 people who have HGV licences and are no longer using them tells it's own story.

Giving temporary visas to Europeans won't help hugely - they also have the same shortages in Europe, for example Poland need 90,000 drivers currently.

And what winnieanddaisy said

@MBDBBB

Good grief. The army are doing their actual jobs. Yes they can deploy a small contingent to drive tankers but only the ones who are qualified to do so. They aren’t sitting around doing nothing in the interim waiting for you to need milk for your tea. Politics etc aside (lots of opinions on this already) who the hell are you to decide what the army’s job is? Go and make yourself another cup of black tea and be on your way.

As I have explained, the black tea in itself is not an issue

However, the black tea represents the fact that we are no longer living in a society with regular and reliable supply chains.

One consequence of which was that I was yet again back to teaching online from home today

so yes, I do think that calling in the army is justified. We have an army to protect our society.