Third primary dose of COVID vaccination for severely immunosuppressed individuals

[LeeBowman]

My GP, Consultant, National Vaccine Helpline, and 119 all cite each other to give information about the third primary dose. No one is taking ownership, no one has the answer. Are third primary doses actually happening (as announced on national news)? Has anybody got any info about how to get them?

@CovidCorvid

Cev friend of mine got her third dose last weekend, her GP surgery is doing them for people meeting the criteria.

Is that 3rd primary?

Or booster 3rd jab!

@Powertothepetal

We are talking about patients with compromised immune systems where vaccines are known to less effective The answer is surely then to test for anti bodies..? Not just keep giving boosters?

This isn’t helpful as people with immune system conditions don’t just rely on functioning antibodies.

I’ve got my 3rd primary this week but I only heard about it a few days ago. I know people are getting stressed but hang in there, give them some time to make contact. It sounds like consultants and GP surgeries are working through lists and ensuring people are identified.

My Dad has got RA (takes Methotrexate), and is an insulin dependent diabetic. He's had a text message to book online and there are lots of available appointments.

Right petal so you've half remembered something wrongly, asserted it as a fact, Googled and are now rowing back to live vaccines which
a) we know and
b) is irrelevant as none of the covid jabs are live.
Not helpful.

What happens if someone immunocompromised who qualifies for the 3rd Primary dose gets a booster dose instead?

I believe my Mum might need the third primary dose, but she is also almost 6 months on from her 2nd dose, so is likely to be summoned soon.

If they are doing Pfizer as booster are they exactly the same as 3rd dose primary? In which case, she might as well just have that and I can fight for and 4th dose (booster) if and when they are introduced. I think that Moderna are 1/2 dose boosters and therefore not the same as 3rd primary.

So confusing and would have been so much easier if they could have thought about 3rd primaries and got them rolled out before the confusion of the boosters.

That's what's happened with me Hmmpf. I had AZ as my first two, had Pfizer yesterday, I assume as a booster, and have no idea where that leaves me with the third primary.

[quote Powertothepetal]@PastMyBestBeforeDate
Not quite.
The advice is that immunosuppressed people can’t have live vaccines.
But the Covid vaccine isn’t live.

It still seems off to me tbh[/quote]
Well it’s a good job that you aren’t in charge of the immunisation programme then isn’t - best to leave it to people who actually understand immunology.

@Hmmph

What happens if someone immunocompromised who qualifies for the 3rd Primary dose gets a booster dose instead?

I believe my Mum might need the third primary dose, but she is also almost 6 months on from her 2nd dose, so is likely to be summoned soon.

If they are doing Pfizer as booster are they exactly the same as 3rd dose primary? In which case, she might as well just have that and I can fight for and 4th dose (booster) if and when they are introduced. I think that Moderna are 1/2 dose boosters and therefore not the same as 3rd primary.

So confusing and would have been so much easier if they could have thought about 3rd primaries and got them rolled out before the confusion of the boosters.

It is complicated and not helped by 3rd primary and the booster programme being launched at the same time.

Moderna is second line and only being used where there has been a previous severe reaction to the Pfizer.

@Hmmph

What happens if someone immunocompromised who qualifies for the 3rd Primary dose gets a booster dose instead?

I believe my Mum might need the third primary dose, but she is also almost 6 months on from her 2nd dose, so is likely to be summoned soon.

If they are doing Pfizer as booster are they exactly the same as 3rd dose primary? In which case, she might as well just have that and I can fight for and 4th dose (booster) if and when they are introduced. I think that Moderna are 1/2 dose boosters and therefore not the same as 3rd primary.

So confusing and would have been so much easier if they could have thought about 3rd primaries and got them rolled out before the confusion of the boosters.

The booster and the third primary dose are in reality the same thing. The difference is that the third primary dose doesn't have to be given at least six months from the second dose. This means that people who are severely immunosuppressed should be first in line for the vaccine at the moment.

@Powertothepetal

We are talking about patients with compromised immune systems where vaccines are known to less effective The answer is surely then to test for anti bodies..? Not just keep giving boosters?

It's easier and cheaper just to give another vaccine dose rather than testing antibodies first and then giving the vaccine.

@nether 3rd primary. She will have another/booster in a bit.

This means that people who are severely immunosuppressed should be first in line for the vaccine at the moment.

If only! Thanks for confirming what I thought should be happening though.

I have a health condition which I thought would make me vulnerable but was told time again it doesn’t… now I’ve been invited for third vaccine due to my health condition….!!!

@User5827372728

I have a health condition which I thought would make me vulnerable but was told time again it doesn’t… now I’ve been invited for third vaccine due to my health condition….!!!

Is that for the 3rd primary dose or the 3rd dose booster?

The criteria for the 3rd primary dose are quite limited whereas the criteria for the 3rd dose booster are much wider.

@RockallMalinHebrides

I’m not sure, I just got a text saying my vaccine is booked for next week…! But I’m immunosuppressed and have significant lung damage so was weird I wasn’t CE!

[quote User5827372728]@RockallMalinHebrides

I’m not sure, I just got a text saying my vaccine is booked for next week…! But I’m immunosuppressed and have significant lung damage so was weird I wasn’t CE![/quote]
If it was a text it is probably your booster (assuming 6 months from your last dose). For the 3rd primary dose your consultant is supposed to let you know that you require it - and this is where the problem lies.

I think the decision on giving people who were very immunosuppressed at the time of the first vaccinations another dose has got buried under the decision to give everyone over 50 another dose anyway. It doesn't make that much difference though. Assuming everyone who is very immunosuppressed got their second vaccination by April they will be due a booster dose by now anyway.

@Belladonna12

I think the decision on giving people who were very immunosuppressed at the time of the first vaccinations another dose has got buried under the decision to give everyone over 50 another dose anyway. It doesn't make that much difference though. Assuming everyone who is very immunosuppressed got their second vaccination by April they will be due a booster dose by now anyway.

But they also need the booster on top - so four doses in total not 3.

Although the 4th dose is yet to be confirmed. This is the info from Blood Cancer UK:

Third vaccine dose for immunosuppressed people

Adults and children aged 12 and over who are severely immunosuppressed should get a third dose of the covid vaccine this autumn. The advice covers the whole of the UK.

This is different from the national booster programme. If you have blood cancer, it's important to get your third dose, rather than the booster. This is because for some types of vaccine (like Moderna), the third dose is a full dose but the booster dose will only be a half dose. It's also important because it gives you the chance to have three primary doses rather than two, and possibly a fourth dose (booster) in the future as well (although we are waiting for confirmation on future booster doses for this group). Having a third dose aims to increase your antibody response to the vaccine.

The third dose is for people who had weakened immune systems at the time of their first or second vaccination, who might not have produced enough antibodies from the vaccine. This includes anyone with blood cancer or ongoing immunosuppression. The third dose aims to increase the level of protection gained from the vaccine.

The third dose is different from the booster jab, which other vulnerable groups (who aren't immunosuppressed) are being offered, and which only aims to extend the length of time that the original protection lasts.

People who get a third dose of the vaccine this autumn may also get a booster vaccination in around six months' time, but this hasn't been confirmed yet.

But they also need the booster on top - so four doses in total not 3.

They haven't actually said that they will need four doses in total rather than three. I don't think decision on whether to give a fourth dose to anybody has been made yet. If people haven't responded to 3 vaccine doses there arguably isn't much point giving a fourth one in six months time. Hopefully there will be a vaccine which is effective against the new variants by then anyway and then probably everyone who is vulnerable will receive that.

@RockallMalinHebrides

Although the 4th dose is yet to be confirmed. This is the info from Blood Cancer UK:

Third vaccine dose for immunosuppressed people

Adults and children aged 12 and over who are severely immunosuppressed should get a third dose of the covid vaccine this autumn. The advice covers the whole of the UK.

This is different from the national booster programme. If you have blood cancer, it's important to get your third dose, rather than the booster. This is because for some types of vaccine (like Moderna), the third dose is a full dose but the booster dose will only be a half dose. It's also important because it gives you the chance to have three primary doses rather than two, and possibly a fourth dose (booster) in the future as well (although we are waiting for confirmation on future booster doses for this group). Having a third dose aims to increase your antibody response to the vaccine.

The third dose is for people who had weakened immune systems at the time of their first or second vaccination, who might not have produced enough antibodies from the vaccine. This includes anyone with blood cancer or ongoing immunosuppression. The third dose aims to increase the level of protection gained from the vaccine.

The third dose is different from the booster jab, which other vulnerable groups (who aren't immunosuppressed) are being offered, and which only aims to extend the length of time that the original protection lasts.

People who get a third dose of the vaccine this autumn may also get a booster vaccination in around six months' time, but this hasn't been confirmed yet.

Yes, people need to make sure that they get Pfizer rather than Moderna but that is what most people will be getting anyway. Apart from that it doesn't make any difference whether it is called part of the primary vaccine or a booster.

I think everyone should appreciate that the vaccine services are completely stretched at the moment. Last year they were heralded for the way they set up and vaccinated the adult population twice.

The situation this autumn is that are being asked to redo phase one as boosters at the same time as flu. This was always a challenge but got even more complex when the government threw in a schools programme and the third dose for immunosuppressed.

The government makes it announcements to the public at the same time as the NHS. Meaning more often than not there is no planning in place to do what they decide when they decide it.

For the immunosuppressed, GP record searches need to be written and processed to identify who qualifies. Consultants need to identify people in their care who qualify. If that was all people were doing it would be easy.

Booster and third dose services for adults have been stood up after a summer when a lot went into hibernation due to low demand. People should start getting called into GP and hospital hubs.

I'm severely immune suppressed via meds (and have been since September 2020) and didn't get my 2nd vivid jab till the last day of April, so can't get a booster till at least the end of October.

So I could really do with that 3rd primary jab now. But I'm beginning to think it's mythical, a thing of legend.

@LemonTT

I think everyone should appreciate that the vaccine services are completely stretched at the moment. Last year they were heralded for the way they set up and vaccinated the adult population twice.

The situation this autumn is that are being asked to redo phase one as boosters at the same time as flu. This was always a challenge but got even more complex when the government threw in a schools programme and the third dose for immunosuppressed.

The government makes it announcements to the public at the same time as the NHS. Meaning more often than not there is no planning in place to do what they decide when they decide it.

For the immunosuppressed, GP record searches need to be written and processed to identify who qualifies. Consultants need to identify people in their care who qualify. If that was all people were doing it would be easy.

Booster and third dose services for adults have been stood up after a summer when a lot went into hibernation due to low demand. People should start getting called into GP and hospital hubs.

I agree. I really do understand the anxiety but phoning GPs and specialists isn’t the answer. I heard of people with the same condition of me having their 3rd primary dose before I had even received the letter stating that I was eligible. We need to be patient. It’ll happen.