To think these changes to the housing waiting list are not “cruel” but simply realistic?

[Eastie77Returns]

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

In Berlin they have just passed a referendum on the local government taking 200000 properties back from private landlords (with no payment) to socially rent. We should do that in London.

How does that work? A landlord has to give up a property that they own, without any payment for it , regardless of what they paid or what the market value is? I know MN generally despises landlords but surely this also an unfair solution?

@BrendaBubbles

In Berlin they have just passed a referendum on the local government taking 200000 properties back from private landlords (with no payment) to socially rent. We should do that in London.

All that’s happened is that a group of tenants has voted in favour of nationalising the properties

It’s got zero legal standing, it’s non binding and non enforceable

The organisers are just hoping politicians will take note of it as it signifies the will of tenants but it won’t actually lead to anything
There have been several similar referendums in recent years

It’s laughable to think anything similar could happen in London

If she has been offered a council house of any description she is luckier than most. There is a massive shortage of houses. So cruel no realistic yes.

@BrendaBubbles

In Berlin they have just passed a referendum on the local government taking 200000 properties back from private landlords (with no payment) to socially rent. We should do that in London.

Given how many MPs or their family’s are landlords. I can’t see that vote passing

@Clocktopus of course it is subsidised - otherwise you can just rent privately in which case there's no issue is there?

[quote SailYourShips]@toocold54

It's still not a great situation for your Polish friend is it? The flat may be spacious but where is the outside space for the children?

London council houses always used to come with gardens and any family should be entitled to a garden,. Flats are really not good enough.[/quote]
Are you for real? Flats are not not good enough? So people getting subsidized housing think being placed outside London is not good enough. Some
Now flats are lit good enough and everyone needs a house with a garden in London at below market rate. This is crazy, utterly utterly crazy.

[quote flippertyop]@Clocktopus of course it is subsidised - otherwise you can just rent privately in which case there's no issue is there? [/quote]
No you can’t.
If you have bad credit, pets, kids, receive certain benefits, are on one income. If you don’t pass the affordability (I failed mine, but have savings that proved I could pay the rent for 3 years). If there’s too much competition in one area and your never “the attractive bidder”.

That’s before you’ve looked at deposits etc

[quote AngelDelight28]@toocold54 But she was offered a house, she turned it down as the area was too rough apparently.
This happens in my city too, people turning down houses as they don't like the area, or they don't know anyone in the area they're being offered (even though it's still in the same city). Then you see them in the local paper complaining that the council won't house them, or on Facebook moaning that the refugees are taking all the houses.

[/quote]
Utter madness. This sort of entitlement is just crazy. No wonder people’s attitudes have hardened towards all aspects of welfare. These anecdotes are too frequent to ignore. People who don’t qualify for state support don’t get to be so choosy,

Support networks aside, I don't understand why everyone is so desperate to stay in London. Unless you're in one of the unimaginably expensive, gentrified areas it's a total and utter shithole.

That being said, I understand their frustration at just being removed from the list. If they've been on there for years and years, it's got to be upsetting to feel as though the council is just turning its back on you & trying to push you 100s of miles away.

A march is a fair outlet to air their grievances. Why not?

You couldn't pay me to live in London or it's surrounding areas - I escaped 4 years ago to the north and have never been happier.

If you are that desperate for housing or homeless surely you would just take a home anywhere they could get one. If you are not tied to London for work then you could live anywhere. People move away from support networks every single day. If you were trying to buy a house you move further away from London to afford what you want so why shouldn't this be the case for everyone? Social tenants included.

@EvilPea you are not suggesting surely that LA housing should be available as an alternative to people as opposed to private renting so they can have pets 😂?

Well @sst1234 Im assuming you arent from the "stay the fuck at home" brigade who moaned when ppl in flats needed to get out during lockdown. You know what.........................fuck the second vaccine. I wont be bothering

All in it together.......................but only when it comes to Covid mask wear and vaccines. Fuck that!

fuck the second vaccine. I wont be bothering
Eh? That's cutting your nose of to spite your face @MercyBooth

im pissed off with being told its for the greater good then everything goes back to the default setting afterwards.

[quote flippertyop]@EvilPea you are not suggesting surely that LA housing should be available as an alternative to people as opposed to private renting so they can have pets 😂? [/quote]
No if you have pets it makes it more difficult private renting
As do children
If you claim any benefits
If your self employed
All make it more difficult privately renting.

I totally agree. It’s just realistic. I’d love to live in XYZ location but nobody has the god given right to live for free/cheap in one of the most expensive cities in the world, funded by the rest of us.

@Suddenlyfamily5

I can understand the frustration. My friend (A) came from Poland with 2 young DC. She was renting privately but was then given notice so applied for a council flat. She was given a spacious 3 bed flat in London near Cannonbury; couldn’t believe her luck

Our joint friend is a Londoner born and bred living with her DM and her toddlers in over crowded accommodation. She’s been waiting years for a CH.

It sadly ended their friendship as friend B couldn’t get over it.

So friend B chose to have children whilst living with her mum resulting in the accommodation becoming overcrowded? See, this doesn't help the argument! Not saying it's right that friend A got housed first mind.

@sst1234

Don't you agree that children need gardens?

[quote SailYourShips]@sst1234

Don't you agree that children need gardens?[/quote]
No. Children grow up in apartments all over the world and manage to be well adjusted, happy and well socialised. London is full of parks, playgrounds and green spaces.

I also work in housing, NE and there isn't as much pressure on housing here as there is in other parts, but it is still very much a case of demand outstripping supply. Like a pp I often wonder if people truly think there is a stack of housing just hidden away that we can immediately give to them. I'm not sure if that's because there is a lower demand in general and therefore a realistic chance of being re-housed, but people then expect this to happen straight away.

There are lots of issues imo:

1. I do agree with tenancies for life, the absolute downfall of private rent is the knowledge / fear that you can potentially be told to leave at any point. This ends up disrupting not only the tenants but also the neighbours. I do however think the focus should be on the tenancy rather than the actual property. There should be an expectation that once someone doesn't need the size / type of property that they are given the necessary help and support to move to another property.
2. There needs to be an absolute realism of where you are likely to be offered a property - I am not talking, about like in the OP an expectation to move 100 miles away but there are people who define a very small geographical area or even the particular (high demand) street they want to live on - they are entitled to do this but they also have to realise that this means it will take longer to secure a move.
3. Having always live in x town / paid your rent on time / kept your garden tidy does not mean that you will be offered a property above everyone else.
4. Currently (in my area at least) there has been a massive increase in applications since covid, no one is quite sure why though.
5. Choice based lettings has it's advantages and disadvantages - I think overall it is better than just a list.
6. New properties can be built, but there is never enough, general housebuilding can't keep up with demand so I am not sure why people think that just building more SH will solve the housing crisis. The historic RTB is also unlikely to be solely to blame, housing has been forgotten about for decades, this is it just being lived out.

I'm not sure about just taking people back off the list but there is also no point if they will never be re-housed, though I also agree with others that if you take them off they then become part of the hidden figures.

I am not sure Gove is going to be of any help at all, no doubt he will make things worse, after all this is the same one who thinks all children should do better than average.

To be honest the bigger issue is surely that housing in general is unaffordable to a lot of people. Most of my friends either rent or have bought their homes, all have moved away from the town we grew up in as the properties are too expensive; some have stayed local but others have moved further afield where its even cheaper. A lot seem to think being able to afford to rent or buy gives you freedom, and it does to an extent, but a lot of people make tough choices due to affordability of different areas. Most of my friends who grew up in London have had to move elsewhere, away from their support networks because they simply can't afford to rent beyond house shares, and definitely can't buy.

Stop comparing it to covid and masks mercy it's a strange argument.

Though I am glad you have posted I was only this morning thinking I hadn't noticed any posts from you and if you were ok. I was even pondering what post I could start to get you to post.

I would love to live in St John's Wood but I can't afford it 😂 so tough luck I have to live on outskirts of Greater London & commute in because that's what I can afford.

Why do those who qualify for social housing not understand that's just how life works. Many people who have to rent/buy can't afford to live where their parents lived or where they grew up.

Why would those in social housing be any exception?

@HousingOne I also agree with tenancies for life in principle - however unless there is enough housing to keep up, then surely this just keeps many people in the fear you mention with private rent, but with no end to it and often in far worse financial/logistical positions than those who got a tenancy for life and now have better paying jobs and the financial buffer that comes with over a decade paying below market rents.

It could be something reassessed every 5 or even 10 years, and be somewhat fairer.