To ask cleaner why she is being so off with me?

[TrinidadQueen]

She can't look me in the eye.
Is rude in texts. Not saying hi just saying 'That's fine.'etc.

I have asked her to work shorter hours this week but made it clear she will have more next week. I have also let her know the schedule late but explained that was because of my own workplace letting me know late. I know she is experiencing some health issues and do wonder if it is spilling into work. Although I have already told her she can work less hours if needed, she did not seem keen on this idea.
Just not sure how to approach this.

Massively unreasonable to chop and change her hours like that. No wonder she’s pissed off!

Blanking someone and passive aggressive texts are rude and unnecessary.

'That's fine' in reply to a message is hardly passive-aggressive. I think OP is being a bit paranoid and reading too much into the messages because she rightly knows she's messing her cleaner around.

Why do her cleaning hours depend on your schedule? Do you have to be there when she cleans? Most people have cleaners in while they are out at work. No wonder she’s mad. You agreeing set hours then reduce it, but making her work more the next week to break even. I’d fire you as a client if this kept going tbh. She will have other clients and you are messing up her timetable with no clear reason. Leave her a key and keep the same time 🤷‍♀️

We had to cancel our cleaner today due to the fact that we are both at home ill.

We will still pay her. This is the slot that we have every week and I wouldn’t ask or expect her to move to a different day - or, indeed, work extra next week, as she will have other clients booked in and it is not her fault she can’t come, plus she will have an estimated income based on the clients she has.

@Loudestcat14

Of course that’s an appropriate text for many people. My responses to texts are normally quite blunt.

What is rude is if the tone of texts is normally much more friendly and has been changed to be blunt.
We all know that deliberately changing the tone of texts is something passive aggressive that people do. It appears that this is the case with OP’s cleaner.

I work for myself, not cleaning but still a service based business.

I charge either a half day 4 hours or a full day 8 hours.

last week I had a customer book a full day when I arrived they said we can only do a half day today so can we just do that, no problem but you have to pay for the whole day. ohh we thought we could just pay a half day? No sorry you booked for the day, your being a bit unreasonable. I decided that I would leave them to it. 10 min later they called and said we will pay for the whole day, sorry I am on my way home now!! travelled 35 miles each way for that.

If you have agreed hours then pay the agreed hours, as people have said your cleaner will have other clients and cannot make up the hours or conjure up hours to suit you.

if I was your cleaner I'd be looking to see if I could fill your hours with another client ASAP

My clients from last week have been trying to call to rebook and I'm ignoring them.

OP, cleaners are one of the things on MN that you can’t ask about if you expect to get reasonable responses.

Like with any service provides by those who are self employed, like dog walkers, hairdressers, gardeners etc, you employ them when you need them. You are not obliged to give them money for a service you don’t need. The cleaner is free to implement a late cancellation fee.

If you need fewer hours this week, then that’s fine. If you ask for extra hours next week, that’s also fine if the self employed person can provide them. You were being considerate by telling the cleaner she could work fewer hours if she needed to because of her health issue.

[quote Frogsandsheep]@icedcoffees

See my comment above - we don’t know about their usual arrangements/ pay/ flexibility etc. If the cleaner is that unhappy then she could dump OP as a client. Blanking someone and passive aggressive texts are rude and unnecessary.[/quote]
She hasn't blanked her - she's responded as necessary.

I'm self employed and I don't appreciate being cancelled on last minute especially if that means I lose pay.

Like with any service provides by those who are self employed, like dog walkers, hairdressers, gardeners etc, you employ them when you need them. You are not obliged to give them money for a service you don’t need. The cleaner is free to implement a late cancellation fee.

Of course you only employ them when you need them, but dicking them around is a really piss poor way to behave.

I am self employed dog walker by the way and luckily my clients appreciate me and the effort that goes into scheduling my week, so if they cancel they all pay me anyway

OP, cleaners are one of the things on MN that you can’t ask about if you expect to get reasonable responses.

I think the responses here have been pretty reasonable. Which ones do you think are unreasonable?

She may have really needed all her hours this week. Assuming you pay what, £10 and hour? So a couple of hours is £20 she'll be down this week. Okay she'll have more hours next week but that doesn't put food on the table.

Maybe she's got childcare arranged for the hours she does and now that will be wasted?

Maybe her health is really concerning her and she needs every penny she gets to save in case she needs to take sick leave in the near future?

Would you be happy if your employer told you don't come in this week and we're not paying you?

@icedcoffees

I took ‘she can’t look me in the eye’ as the cleaner blanking OP. If she normally makes eye contact then what else would you call suddenly withholding eye contact?

OP hasn’t given us a great amount of detail but the posts have all launched into OP and I’m trying to offer another perspective as we don’t actually know what their normal working agreement and relationship are like.

If responding to texts with "that's fine" is rude, I've been unwillingly rude for years, probably in a weekly basis..

Regarding lack of eye contact, is this new, or could she be just generally shy?

But yes, you're messing her around and making her the one being affected by your work, not you. You should pay her for her full hours this week since its you changing then, not her.

Unwittingly, even

[quote Frogsandsheep]@icedcoffees

I took ‘she can’t look me in the eye’ as the cleaner blanking OP. If she normally makes eye contact then what else would you call suddenly withholding eye contact?

OP hasn’t given us a great amount of detail but the posts have all launched into OP and I’m trying to offer another perspective as we don’t actually know what their normal working agreement and relationship are like.[/quote]
That's true.

But I'm assuming that if they normally have a very flexible relationship then the cleaner wouldn't be pissed off with this change in hours/days as she'd be used to it.

If the change in her behaviour matches up with OP messing her about, then it's understandable she's annoyed.

In my experience many customers don't seem to realise or care that you have other clients - they want you at say, midday on Monday normally but expect to change to Wednesday with no issue at all

@saraclara

That’s a very disingenuous response!
I think it’s pretty obvious that the tone of the cleaner’s texts has changed.
Of course ‘that’s fine’ is an ok text but if they are usually much friendlier then changing the tone of the text is passive aggressive/ rude.

You changed her hours and pay with short notice and your pissed that she isn't sufficiently servile in her responses? Really?

[quote Frogsandsheep]@saraclara

That’s a very disingenuous response!
I think it’s pretty obvious that the tone of the cleaner’s texts has changed.
Of course ‘that’s fine’ is an ok text but if they are usually much friendlier then changing the tone of the text is passive aggressive/ rude.[/quote]
Hang on, so a woman whose hours and pay are messed about by their employer isn't allowed to be rude/upset and should continue to be as nice as pie no matter? You want her to say please and thank you for losing work?!! You'll be having her doff her cap next!

I think it's pretty obvious this is a new dynamic sparked by the pay/hours being cut otherwise OP wouldn't have started the thread off the back of it. I don't blame the cleaner one iota for sending an abrupt message back.

I think people are going ott with you about the time changes OP.

you would be u to approach it “why are you being off with me” because that comes across as blaming and as though she owes it to you to be jolly and friendly, which she doesn’t.

But, you could ask her how she is? if she’s keeping okay?

Like with any service provides by those who are self employed, like dog walkers, hairdressers, gardeners etc, you employ them when you need them. You are not obliged to give them money for a service you don’t need. The cleaner is free to implement a late cancellation fee

That’s such a shitty outlook to have. People need to earn a living and last minute cancellations impact on their income.

I book our dog walker in advance as well as our cleaner. If, for whatever reason, we don’t need the dogs walked or the house cleaned we still pay for the time we’ve booked. If we go on holiday I still pay for the hours we’d have normally booked. I couldn’t do without our amazing dog walker or our lovely cleaner and certainly wouldn’t piss them off by mucking them around.

OP YABVU and I don’t blame the cleaner if she’s being curt with you, her life doesn’t revolve around your schedule.

But, you could ask her how she is? if she’s keeping okay?

Don’t be coy. She isn’t a child and will see straight through that. If you want to apologise for messing her around then just do it. Don’t make her drag it out of you.

OP has disappeared. I wonder if it was a genuine post

she is probably not looking you in the eye as she is looking for another job with standard hours and pay

Apologise for messing her around. Surely she deserves set hours?

@Loudestcat14

I didn’t say she should be nice as pie at all!!!

I can totally understand the cleaner being pissed off but surely it’s best to tell the OP she’s that she’s annoyed or dump the OP.
Both would be justified.

Passive aggressive or rude texts are not professional or helpful is resolving an issue of dispute.