It shouldn’t be said that “only women have a cervix”.

[Paddingtonsmarmaladesandwiches]

Watching Keir Stammer on Marr this morning scrambling to answer whether or not it is transphobic to say “only women have a cervix” was the final nail in the coffin for me this morning with Labour. In the aftermath of The Lancet calling women, “bodies with vaginas”, I think I’ve finally figured out that the current belief system is that transwomen are women, but women who were observed female at birth are “bodies with vaginas”. Clearly Labour aren’t in need of the votes of bodies with vaginas, brains and a spine.

Being a woman isn't an "experience" you get to choose to have. I'm a woman because I was born a human female. That's it. The end.

Trans people are the most marginalised in society? How dare you say that when wave after wave of statistics are coming out about the sheer scale of VAWG? Daily, weekly there are reports of women and children murdered by their partners and by strangers.
Rape prosecutions are low.
Women are locked up in prisons with rapists.
Fuck off Starmer just FUCK OFF.
I’m so angry it hurts

THIS. 1 TRILLION PER CENT

Do they wish to acknowledge in a medical setting that they are still, and will always be biologically female and this will affect much of their medical treatment.
Of course if they request it they can be referred to as male, but in reality the doctors need to know their biology.

Just last week there was a news article regarding a transman who wan't called for a routine smear test, and now has developed cervical cancer. (S)he was dentified as male on medical records whiich (s)he had had changed, and which also, at his/her request removed any reference to biological sex.

(S)he is blaming the NHS for not being acknowledging that there are men with cervixes blahdeblahdeblah. It seems that routine smear tests should be offered to everybody just on the off chance.

This looks like Labour are going after trans votes
There can be no other sane reason for the stupidity they are showing and the desperation to not offend.

What they haven't twigged is that they are probably alienating just over half the population in doing so.

@colouringindoors

*Trans people are the most marginalised in society? How dare you say that when wave after wave of statistics are coming out about the sheer scale of VAWG? Daily, weekly there are reports of women and children murdered by their partners and by strangers. Rape prosecutions are low. Women are locked up in prisons with rapists. Fuck off Starmer just FUCK OFF. I’m so angry it hurts*

THIS. 1 TRILLION PER CENT

Multiplied by infinity.

In the UK as far as I could see from internet searches, one TW has been murdered in the past two years - by another TW.

Meanwhile, women are being slaughtered at the rate of 2-3 a WEEK!

@colouringindoors

*Trans people are the most marginalised in society? How dare you say that when wave after wave of statistics are coming out about the sheer scale of VAWG? Daily, weekly there are reports of women and children murdered by their partners and by strangers. Rape prosecutions are low. Women are locked up in prisons with rapists. Fuck off Starmer just FUCK OFF. I’m so angry it hurts*

THIS. 1 TRILLION PER CENT

Oh for a really big t shirt.

I agree the Conservatives let it get this bad. They were probably thinking that Labour would make them look “mean” if they did anything about it. So they played politics. Shameful.
On the other hand, Labour and the Lib Dem’s promise to bring in legislation and show no respect for women’s opinions on this. At least Liz Trust deflated Stonewall a little.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Do they wish to acknowledge in a medical setting that they are still, and will always be biologically female and this will affect much of their medical treatment. Of course if they request it they can be referred to as male, but in reality the doctors need to know their biology.

Just last week there was a news article regarding a transman who wan't called for a routine smear test, and now has developed cervical cancer. (S)he was dentified as male on medical records whiich (s)he had had changed, and which also, at his/her request removed any reference to biological sex.

(S)he is blaming the NHS for not being acknowledging that there are men with cervixes blahdeblahdeblah. It seems that routine smear tests should be offered to everybody just on the off chance.

See this is just ridiculous.

There is absolutely a need for medical records to be FACTUAL for precisely this sort of thing. You shouldn't be able to just change them whenever you fancy.

By all means, a note to say the patient identifies as male/female but the biological facts of their sex should be noted.

@HarrisonStickle

Transmen can have cervixes so it's not only women.

However, the argument has become so distorted that to suggest transwomen are in broadly the same category as men biologically and that transmen are broadly in the same category as women is viewed as blasphemous.

It's impossible to say "women and transmen have cervixes" because of the backlash so everything must be couched in terms of "cervix havers" otherwise it results in a barage of misogynistic abuse which is being whipped up by some men and some transwomen. And it only affects women and transmen because there isn't so much misandry on their side of the argument.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious here, I'm trying to work through this subject myself and to understand everything that's happening and why.

No, no understanding, you are still talking gibberish. Trans men/women are not reproductive. Without a man's help. Choose him carefully.

it’s about expanding the category of woman in a way that recognises diversity and is inclusive

Nope. 'Woman', 'man', 'girl' and 'boy' are referring to biological sex.

'Woman' is simply the word that humanises 'female' (also referring to biological sex), to make it clear we're talking about human beings of the female sex and not female canines, female felines etc.

Being as it's related to biology and not identity, it's not a category that can be expanded (as if biology gives a toss about diversity and inclusion). You're either a human male, a boy that will grow to become a man (man: an adult human of the male sex), or a human female, a girl that will grow to become a woman (woman: an adult human of the female sex), and no amount of foot stamping, demanding we don't talk about it or threatening and dehumanising women will ever change that.

Lets face it, if he has an opinion on trans issues the right wing loving media will pounce on it. And they will with anyone who threatens the current idiots running the show.

Not forgetting the fact that all of these issues have occured under Tory rule....... So I for one hopes he keeps his gob shut, gives non commital responses that don't lose him votes from idiots too thick to see the bigger picture then slides his arse into downing st to do things his way.

I agree the Conservatives let it get this bad. They were probably thinking that Labour would make them look “mean” if they did anything about it. So they played politics. Shameful.

I'm not fan of the conservatives but I hardly think you can blame them for the policies other parties have decided to embrace. I doubt Johnson is in charge of Starmers media prep for interviews, this morning's disastrous performance was all his own work. I don't think he believes any of it so he's also playing politics but rather than with the Tories it's with his own credibility and integrity. Keir Starmer knows what a woman is and knows stating only women have a cervix should not be controversial.

Apparently Labour are concerned that they might not win the next election!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-58699357

Oh for fucks sake. I am appalled. I voted Labour in the last election despite being Jewish and very concerned at labours failure to tackle antisemitism within the party. I was even more concerned at the thought of Boris Johnson at the helm. But just when I felt Starmer was trying to tackle the antisemitism he begins gaslighting women with this total shit. He is the gift that keeps on giving to the Tories. How are we going to end this Tory shitshow wrecking the country when the opposition are making themselves unelectable.

@Bizawit

1000x YABU but it won’t make any difference 😢😢😢😡😡😡😡. This is not about erasing women, it’s about expanding the category of woman in a way that recognises diversity and is inclusive. Not everyone’s body is the same and not every experience of being a woman is the same. It’s not the terrible concept you think it is.

You say “transwomen are women, but women who were observed female at birth are bodies with vaginas”. No no no no no. I was “observed female at birth” and I am a woman. I also have a body with a vagina.

Most people who have bodies with vaginas are women, a v small minority are not. Some people are women but don’t have a body with a vagina.

It’s really not hard at all if you choose to open your mind and teeny- tiny wee bit and accept that not everyone in the world is exactly like you.

Get the f over it.

But what does someone who was raised as male and doesn't have internal and external female sex organs and naturally produced female hormones have in common with women, other than things which are a stereotype of womanhood? The only thing I have in common with all other women is my body type and biological functions. Everything else is personality and a collection of experiences which another woman may or may not have in common with me.
Why does the category of woman need expanding? Why don't effeminate men feel okay in their category?

But just when I felt Starmer was trying to tackle the antisemitism he begins gaslighting women with this total shit. He is the gift that keeps on giving to the Tories

This. After KS clear stance on anti-semtism I thought I may finally be able to start voting Labour again.

Not now thought Keir, not a chance. And I''ll be clearly explaining to as many people as I can why.

Labour can do one. I am a woman. They need to look at women's rights.

This is not about erasing women, it’s about expanding the category of woman in a way that recognises diversity and is inclusive

You see, the people you are being inclusive of are also the predatory male sex offenders. That's why we have female only spaces when women are vulnerable. To keep women safe.
Inclusivity is not the brilliant concept you think it is.
Its actually really important to things like safeguarding and dignity and trauma recovery and targeted health care to be exclusive.
It’s really not hard at all if you choose to open your mind and teeny- tiny wee bit and accept that not everyone in the world is exactly like you. Some of the men out there are real arseholes and they will skip gleefully through that massive hole in safeguarding you are creating.

Not read the whole thread. Just listened to the interview. Was it an interview, not sure Kier answered many questions. He did say it is WRONG to say only women have cervices. What an idiot.
Also defending Angela Rayner whilst at the same time as citing her as an example of disrespectful debate. He doesn't agree with her and wouldn't have used that language but she is his deputy. I'm not going to vote for Kier despite being on the liberal left but with her as his deputy and him at the helm Labour are an unfit alternative to our present government. This is all about women and girls rights to me. If we cannot name ourselves we cannot be represented politically and reducing us to body parts feels very dystopian.
Does he really believe this is a game of who is the most marginalised. What does he even mean by that? Does he not listen to Jess Phillips read out the number of murdered women every year.

When Liz Truss told Nick Ferarri that “women have vaginas” it struck me that It’s now brave to publicly admit you know what a woman is. Pure insanity.

These all affect women too. And IMO these things affect natal women a lot more day to day especially poor women
I'm donning my hard hat for this next comment but I think you're in a position of privilege if who shares the changing rooms at the local swimming pool is your most pressing concern rather than how to afford to pay for your children's shoes and food

Theres a break it down for me thread somewhere you might find reading it helpful, but in short

If we cannot define woman how can we get the help required to them.

Swimming pools change rooms are one of the issues I mean if any man can come in then where do the Muslim/jewish/abuse survivors go?
And women in prison already locked up with rapist men, if we let this continue how far will it go? How many women should be harmed in prison before you say enough?
How many women not out in public life because of previous trauma or because their religion wont let them in public toilets/swimming pool change rooms with men?
Give us an actual number.

Labour, Lib Dem, and Greens are all as dead as disco in terms of me ever voting for them again.

A person with a penis can be called a woman, but a person with a cervix is not to be spoken of?

Get to fuck. And keep going.

I'm donning my hard hat for this next comment but I think you're in a position of privilege if who shares the changing rooms at the local swimming pool is your most pressing concern rather than how to afford to pay for your children's shoes and food

I actually think its the other way around. I think the gender ideologists advocating for the removal of sex segregation are in the privileged position of never imagining themselves in prison or a refuge. Those are the places that financially poor women go. They don't give a shit about the most disadvantaged women in our society, as they aren't one of those women. Labour should be the party advocating for those women and I will never forgive them for selling these women so comprehensively down the river.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If this isn't proof the only women anyone cares about are those born male, I don't know what is.

It’s depressing isn’t it.

what has Starmer's wife got to say about this?

Does she like to being refuced to her body parts?

ANd how about his Daughter?

Please speak up