To feel very sad that Margaret Becket isn't deputy leader of the Labour Party, instead of Angela Rayner?

[MaMaLa321]

I listened to Margaret Becket's speech at the start of the Labour Conference this morning. Reasoned, intelligent and temperate.
(I watched it live, and can't find a link yet - apologies).
Then read the transcript of Angela Rayner's speech at what seemed to be a fringe meeting yesterday, which was the absolute opposite. No reason. No intelligence. Just a rant.
I'm very off the party at the moment, but Beckett made me think again, while Rayner - well - who would that attract, apart from those who were already going to vote Labour (and feel very smug about it in the process)?
Of course, the latter speech gets loads of media coverage, which is just what the Party doesn't need.

I cant stand her or Lisa Nandy, they both moan and whinge.

If I was keir I’d give up.? It’s a waste of his talents, he’d make a great judge for example or something in the justice department where he can do good things and make a difference. He’s wasting his best employment years trying to change the Labour Party when people like Raynor undo what he is doing.

If the LP developed some clear and unambiguous policies, then it would all matter just a bit less, IMO. There needs to be more focus on that, and less on chasing mythical electorate opinion.

Women like Caroline Flint and Yvette Cooper must feel so embarrassed.

@sashagabadon

If I was keir I’d give up.? It’s a waste of his talents, he’d make a great judge for example or something in the justice department where he can do good things and make a difference. He’s wasting his best employment years trying to change the Labour Party when people like Raynor undo what he is doing.

Be was the head of the CPS for years wasent he?

Oh, here we go. Same old same old.

The interview I mean.

Mixed on this - I lean towards unreasonable because Beckett isn't as active as she was when she was previously deputy, but then the other options in the Labour party at the moment does make it more reasonable, especially over Rayner.

But how old is she now? Genuine question, I've lost touch over the years, and surely it was at least 25 years ago when she was deputy?

She's 78 (according to google), and - being in her constituency - there has been noticeable drop in her visibility around here and responsiveness since Labour went out of power. It has definitely felt she's winding down her career and we're getting crumbs so while she still gives a good speech (I found the one after she was re-voted back in good too), she comes across for me as not being that active and that her priorities are more with her party than the people she's meant to represent.

Margaret Beckett nominated Corbyn as Leader. Never forgive her for that.

For me, it was less she nominated him in, it was when she seemed to be visible part of trying to get him out after she was the one who nominated and while she was doing less around here. That she was vocally involved in internal Labour drama while people were discussing how hard it was to get a response from her was annoying.

Sasha. I agree. What must he be thinking - poisoned chalice but he isnt doing himself any favours. He is struggling on Marr’s show.

Why doesn’t Rosie Duffield not want to come to the conference.

Marr is really going for him now. Asking him about Rayners comments....

It’s almost like they enjoy opposition and never want to hold power to actually change anything.

Kitties - yet I believe she thinks this endures her to voters. We are what 2 years from the next election. If Labour are still like this then they have NO hope of getting in.

Labour has a huge problem with working and lower-middle class voters thinking that the party believes them to be thick, bigoted, racist, etc, which is not an unreasonable conclusion given Labour's current addition to Student Union-style identity politics and the social media toxicity of many of its MPs and members. The levelling of those insults at the Tories by implication smears the people who voted for them (and I don't believe that the Tories actually care about this section of the population either, but at least they have the good sense to not call them names when they want their vote). Those are the people that Labour needs to win back. The rot started when Gordon Brown called that woman a bigot on the campaign trail, and it's a pattern of behaviour that has been compounded since. Some of the candidates that Labour stood in the last election beggared belief. Some "sex positive", pro-prostitution student who was fielded in a constituency with a terrible recent history of child sexual exploitation rings, for example, hectoring former victims of abuse for not being sufficiently progressive. What a surprise that she didn't win the (historically Labour) seat. A party thick enough not to recognise that this isn't a winning platform doesn't deserve to be in government.

@Dissimilitude

It’s almost like they enjoy opposition and never want to hold power to actually change anything.

They do. It’s part of the victim role many labour activists like to imagine themselves as. It’s off putting as a potential voter. I like hope, positive outlook etc not Britain is shit, I am downtrodden, everyone holds me back. That’s the vibe I get from Labour too often.

Rayner is someone who makes Corbyn look reasonable.

Why are they banking on hate, insults and sheer aggression?

Rayner is everything that puts people off. She comes across as a horrible shouty caricature and perpetuates the horrible stereotype of emotional, irrational woman. The babymama routine is off putting to the working class people she think she is representing.
It is incredibly patronising for women and the working class that her claim to fame as a teenage mother is her call them. She has 0 useful things to say, never talks substance, is always in full on Jerry Springer mode ‘slagging’ others off. Is that how working class people and women should see ourselves? Unintelligent, shouty, confrontational. This woman really lowers the bar.

Actually - thinking ahead. What if Rayner was actually leader? Starmer resigns and there is a another leaders election.

Will she do worse than Corbyn in the next general election? I suspect it would be a draw or potentially worse for her. Not better in a million years and that is saying something.

I'm not a Labour supporter (though I did vote for them in 2019, instead of my usual Green vote) but I did think Angela did a good job in PMQs last week. I like Starmer too - but his MO of giving Johnson et al enough rope to hang themselves probably isn't enough for the average voter, they want him to have more 'bite'. But I also despair at the electorate - people thought a party led by Johnson was a party worth their vote...

@endofagain

Women like Caroline Flint and Yvette Cooper must feel so embarrassed.

So true. Why oh why, does Labour sideline women with substance for someone who thinks she is a Jeremy Kyle guest.

@Dissimilitude

It’s almost like they enjoy opposition and never want to hold power to actually change anything.

Yes definitely, so when things are going badly such as the Pandemic, they can just sit there in judgement, and argue and whinge about what they say the government are not doing, rather than offer any credible solutions, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

If Corbyn’s labour was like the Soviet Union, Rayner is like Chernobyl. Failed, smouldering, toxic relic with a 200 mile no entry zone around her, reminding people why anyone associated with Corbyn is a disaster and why never to go back to those days.

I really liked Caroline Flint. Also had a lot of time for Alan Johnson when he told Momentum to get a grip on the night of the last election.

He resonates with the voters. Was very angry with Momentum on what they had done to his beloved Party but wasn’t frightened to say what he thought. He had fire in his belly whereas Rayner just comes across as unhinged and not able to control herself. Also has a massive chip on her shoulder.

@sst1234 "Jeremy Kyle guest" that's spot on! She does seem to think she's on Jeremy Kyle. I can just see her being walked off by two massive security guards shouting "scum!" as they drag her out.

A R is a liability
The LP could do with a new leader and both Angela Raynor and Sir Kier Starmer should be put out to grass. I'm a Labour supporter and I don't think many will be voting for this pair after this conference.

[quote Kittii]@sst1234 "Jeremy Kyle guest" that's spot on! She does seem to think she's on Jeremy Kyle. I can just see her being walked off by two massive security guards shouting "scum!" as they drag her out.[/quote]
🤣🤣

Whist its perfectly true that politicians from all parties speaking to fringe meetings routinely use dog whistle rhetoric, in this day and age I generally assume they want it to be picked up more widely in the media. Its certainly a good way for a careerist to focus the attention on me me me after a weekend of fashion shoots and soft focus interviews and distract people from the content of the main event.

I find the idea of Rayner complaining about others being misogynist to be risible.

@Franklin12

I really liked Caroline Flint. Also had a lot of time for Alan Johnson when he told Momentum to get a grip on the night of the last election.

He resonates with the voters. Was very angry with Momentum on what they had done to his beloved Party but wasn’t frightened to say what he thought. He had fire in his belly whereas Rayner just comes across as unhinged and not able to control herself. Also has a massive chip on her shoulder.

Johnson was spot on.