Drug/drink addicts around the town centre, begging, urinating in public. General A.S.B

[Smokyk]

Does anybody else have a similar problem locally to them? I live in Catford (S.E London) and I'm honestly sick of the sight of it.

Whenever I go to my local Tesco I'm hounded by drug addicts for money. I can't sit down on a bench for 5 minutes to rest my legs without being approached (I'm 8 months pregnant)

There are a group of drinkers that sit near the Costa all day every day, spilling booze all over the place and pissing up the walls in full view of passing children (including mine) making the area smell like a urinal. There are signs saying it's a no drinking zone but they take no notice.

Yesterday we walked past one of these men openly smoking crack at the side of a shop making no effort to conceal it.

Another bloke, drunk as a skunk and in a group of several tried giving my DD (2) a high five and terrified her.

How tone deaf need you be to approach a lone pregnant woman with a toddler when you're out of your head and in a group?

I've been asked for cigarettes and verbally abused when I've said I don't smoke.

One of the well known beggers even harasses people inside cafes.

It's absolutely disgusting.

What is the answer? A petition? Or do us normal locals just have to accept it is what it is? I can't move.

Well you have more than me @Smokyk!
I called services for one passed out looking, but there is no way i would go near him. I called them on a way to work.
I don't fancy being stabbed.

@Annoyedanddissapointed

Well you have more than me *@Smokyk*! I called services for one passed out looking, but there is no way i would go near him. I called them on a way to work. I don't fancy being stabbed.

I honestly don't blame you. It is intimidating. You just don't know how they will respond or whether or not you'll get hurt.

You helped. That's what matters. You did more than many would. Alot of people wouldn't bother phoning it in.

I think I felt safer because there were others about, quite a few people actually, just looking on.

Had it been at night in a quiet area or nobody else about I would have kept my distance and called in from afar.

The privilege, self centeredness and sheer dehumanizing cruelty is something to behold. Awful.

@DetroitNeedsADog

The privilege, self centeredness and sheer dehumanizing cruelty is something to behold. Awful.

Is that in support of the people feeling and being threatened, having their houses broken into and robbed, young kids being exposed to genitals while going to Tesco? Brava if so!

@Tootyfilou

Just count your blessings its not you or a loved one. Maybe you should be asking yourself what social determinants made this happen. Hope you teach your child some empathy.

Bullshit. Where do you live and have you experienced what OP has when out with your child? If not STFU and if so and you think it's acceptable then you're pathetic quite frankly

The hysteria is unwarranted. No one has been stabbed, attacked, raped or hurt by homeless people. It is your fear of people who are othered by society. So sorry for my fellow addicts, recovered and not. The reasons behind addiction are always terribly sad. Generally childhood abuse, sex trafficking and dv.

@DetroitNeedsADog

The hysteria is unwarranted. No one has been stabbed, attacked, raped or hurt by homeless people. It is your fear of people who are othered by society. So sorry for my fellow addicts, recovered and not. The reasons behind addiction are always terribly sad. Generally childhood abuse, sex trafficking and dv.

I am not afraid of homeless

I am empathetic toward homeless people but come on - are you honestly saying that there has never been a single incident?

People here have said that they take drugs or drink to escape their bad memories. Probably everyone has bad memories but not everyone takes drugs or drink. I doubt if anything will get rid of bad memories.

It is not acceptable that drug and drink causes such bad conduct that women and children are in fear going about their own business.

The drink and drug takers need to take responsibility for their actions and do so quickly because they are ruining city centres just about everywhere now.

Tbf I do tend to be scared of men being aggressive and unpredictable, but in my defence I'm scared whether they are homeless or not

@DetroitNeedsADog

The hysteria is unwarranted. No one has been stabbed, attacked, raped or hurt by homeless people. It is your fear of people who are othered by society. So sorry for my fellow addicts, recovered and not. The reasons behind addiction are always terribly sad. Generally childhood abuse, sex trafficking and dv.

Detroit, again, this is not about homeless people.

Many people have been attacked, murdered and raped by people who commit anti-social behaviour as they are by their very nature, anti-social.

I just want to reiterate once again that the majority of the people who congregate doing drugs and abusing people like this in Catford are not bloody homeless. Locals know this.

If it helps to paint the complainers, aka me, in black, by saying that this is an attack on the homeless then that is a total fabrication.

I lived in Catford many years ago. Not for long, 6 weeks? Noisy neighbours drove me out.

It wasn't as bad as the council estate in Deptford. I had to get in a pitch black lift when the light was out. It frequently had shit in it.

Catford used to be quite posh years ago.

@LadyTiredWinterBottom2

I lived in Catford many years ago. Not for long, 6 weeks? Noisy neighbours drove me out.

It wasn't as bad as the council estate in Deptford. I had to get in a pitch black lift when the light was out. It frequently had shit in it.

Catford used to be quite posh years ago.

I lived in deptford on the crossfields estate for a year before I moved to catford, I agree it's bad. A few bad memories from that area.

I was followed home from new cross by a strange predatory man who wouldn't take no for an answer when i said i didnt want to drink with him. Self preservation kicked in when I reached the block of flats and realised he was going to follow me all the way to the door and then god knows what. I told him ok I'd have one drink with him but to wait at the bottom of the stairs whilst I checked nobody was home first as i'd get into trouble bringing somebody back.

I walked up the stairwell furthest from the flat I was living in and legged it down the landing to the door, got in and locked it behind me.

No less than a minute later he was at the door banging on it and looking through the letterbox demanding to be let in.

I think I actually wet myself I was so scared.

He was prowling up and down the landing looking in the windows for atleast 10 minutes. I called the police on 999 but by the time they arrived he had legged it. They never found him.

Another time i was leaving for work in the morning and had to pass somebody shitting on the stairwell, zero fucks given.

Another time i had to pass somebody taking crack, again not a care in the world.

One time walking down the high street two men threatened to rob me for the pizza I was carrying

Local users would meet the dealer on the corner of the block I was living in and I saw it all of the time so brazen.

Shudder. I don't miss deptford.

The drink and drug takers need to take responsibility for their actions and do so quickly because they are ruining city centres just about everywhere now.

What do you want them to do? As baylaurel says there's waiting lists for help of up to 2 years. They are taking responsibility. It's successive governments who aren't.

Btw there's a huge difference between bad memories and severe deep trauma.

Meanwhile the Houses of Parliament are awash with cocaine. Drug use is found in all walks of life. The only difference is that MPs have access to private healthcare including mental health. Paid for by the taxpayer. Perhaps it's time to direct some of that money towards people at the bottom.

What do you want them to do? As baylaurel says there's waiting lists for help of up to 2 years. They are taking responsibility. It's successive governments who aren't.

That's for trauma therapy though isn't it?

With regards to support with addiction in my area somebody can self refer to Change Grow Live and be seen within a week or two. They offer multiple forms of support including help with medical detox, prescriptions etc. I know that because I signposted somebody in my family to them just a few weeks ago. There was no lengthy wait. They just have to engage.

I do however agree that the waiting lists for trauma therapy are appalling.

The problem won't be solved unless people are willing to support constructive practical measures. People don't just decide to become addicts. Whether you sympathise with addicts or not, the only way to make things better for the local communities is through helping people. Starting at childhood (but also not abandoning people when they're traumatised adults).

We need well funded (and well managed) public services, decent affordable housing, and good employment and training opportunities.

The public health housing emergency has contributed massively towards the problem. Communities are torn apart, vulnerable individuals and families are ripped away from their families, community, and support networks. Socially cleansed away. Boom - cohesive stable community gone.

Dump human beings, particularly vulnerable ones, far away from their community and support network, leave them isolated and without support, left to rot in 'sink' estates and no go areas. And this is the result.

I sometimes wonder whether people genuinely want a change for the better though. I mean, ending the war on drugs - giving addicts safe medicinal doses (as we used to in the UK before the 60s) would go a long way towards tacking the issues complained about on this thread. Add in a revived safety net and we'd be really getting there.

I sometimes wonder whether people genuinely want a change for the better though. I mean, ending the war on drugs - giving addicts safe medicinal doses (as we used to in the UK before the 60s) would go a long way towards tacking the issues complained about on this thread. Add in a revived safety net and we'd be really getting there.

I would love to see change but realistically it's not going to happen like that is it? So should we just accept the anti-social behaviour on account that those people have been let down?

As much as I acknowledge that addicts should get help, there is also the element of personal responsibility they we can't continue to absolve them of.

Yes our government have fucked over alot of people (me included, I'm stuck in inadequate housing myself paying well over the odds and have no hope in hell of getting any support from the council) but we can't condone the sort of things I have highlighted in my OP on that basis.

@Tealightsandd Just because I am not a drunk nor I am a drug taker there is no guarantee that I have not had some horrific traumas in my life. I live with my life. I have flashbacks many times in a day. I am terrified to go out etc etc
The Councils sold of houses and grabbed the money for them but did not use that money to provide more housing.

@Smokyk

What do you want them to do? As baylaurel says there's waiting lists for help of up to 2 years. They are taking responsibility. It's successive governments who aren't.

That's for trauma therapy though isn't it?

With regards to support with addiction in my area somebody can self refer to Change Grow Live and be seen within a week or two. They offer multiple forms of support including help with medical detox, prescriptions etc. I know that because I signposted somebody in my family to them just a few weeks ago. There was no lengthy wait. They just have to engage.

I do however agree that the waiting lists for trauma therapy are appalling.

It's all linked. Turning to drugs or alcohol because of deep trauma, for example. Human beings can only take so much pain (emotional or physical).

Leaving someone in unbearable pain for two years? Every waking hour intolerable pain. Being fully conscious is too unbearable. Torture. And what happens? People are kicked whilst they're down. Instead of providing timely support, people are constantly in fear of having their benefits stopped. Not to mention the harsh cuts, sanctions, health 'assessments'. Taking away people's money and dignity.

Thatcher's right to buy (starting the destruction of stable cohesive local communities). Followed by Tony Blair's war on the disabled, ill, and vulnerable, which was very enthusiastically continued by George Osborne. Add in Gordon Brown's housing benefit cuts - forcing vulnerable people into substandard housing often far from their support networks. This is the consequences.

Your local area's substance support sounds brilliant. Unfortunately it's a postcode lottery. It's also not enough to focus solely on the physical addiction. I don't know if it's relevant for your local organisation but it is for many. We need to deal with the root causes. Housing insecurity, poverty, limited opportunities, lack of hope, trauma. The reasons why people turn to drugs or alcohol.

Humans have self medicated their pain from the start of time. Thousands of years it's been the case. The war on drugs is a failed and inhumane (but, for some, very lucrative) policy.

[quote User57327259]@Tealightsandd Just because I am not a drunk nor I am a drug taker there is no guarantee that I have not had some horrific traumas in my life. I live with my life. I have flashbacks many times in a day. I am terrified to go out etc etc
The Councils sold of houses and grabbed the money for them but did not use that money to provide more housing.[/quote]
I'm sorry you're suffering. I hope you will be able to access some support

Yes you're right. Personally I disagree with the whole concept of taxpayers funding house purchases for the people least in need. Council housing is the most secure form of housing there is (together with no mortgage owned outright). Right to Buy was - and remains - a disgrace. And yet in England it still hasn't been stopped. And if we really had to have it, not replacing the homes was indescribably stupid and cruel. Talk about short sighted.

would love to see change but realistically it's not going to happen like that is it?

That's what lazy or incompetent governments rely on. Defeatism and acceptance. It's not impossible. We can change things for the better. We might not be able to make everything perfect, and positive change will take time, but that's not a reason not to do anything. What else do you suggest?

What do you want to see happen? Prison, particularly long sentences, costs money. It is hugely expensive. We might as well spend the money on more positive and constructive measures - things that will help long-term so that our children and grandchildren can benefit too.

We know it can be better, that it is possible, because we used to do it. The UK was one of the world leaders in drugs policy until the 1960s. Still relatively recent history. We also used to have council housing, public services, a welfare safety net, and proper with future opportunities apprenticeships (rather than cheap disposable labour).

So should we just accept the anti-social behaviour on account that those people have been let down?

No definitely not. Which is why we need to call for the positive change I outlined above.

@Tealightsandd

Yep they are still doing right to buy. I bid every week and the property still has right to buy . I think its awful

@Porcupineintherough

You can be an addict and still be a decent human being

Can you? In my experience that's incredibly rare, the addiction takes over.

Addicts need support and shelter and rehab and no one wants to pay for that. So we either tolerate the results as the OP describes, imprison them or move them on.

I don't know if I believe that.

My sister was an addict and bounced around a lot of temporary housing situations but still spent about half a year living on the street with her husband (also an addict).

Thankfully she is clean now, she actually came to live with me and my partner to get clean and stayed with us for about a year which was what ended up working, thank God, mostly because she actually wanted to get clean and was just sick of that life. Also helps she made decision to leave her partner who i believe will be a lifelong addict.

Anyway she was the nicest person, even when she was dealing with the substance issues. Her husband actually is a nice person too just don't think he will ever get clean. I have dealt with him lots.

I mean I get she's my sister and she could be lying to me and maybe her and her husband were evil to everyone else but not us. Yeah that could have happened but I don't know why she would lie about that when she was honest about everything else.

I just don't believe all addicts are immediately evil people it just hasn't been my experience.

Also no one will ever get clean if they don't take personal responsibility for their actions. If you think you are the one responsible for your own situation then also know you have the power to change your situation.

@Tealightsandd rtb onky exsists in certain councils and not with ha, a new rtb was going to be introduced but stalled which meant the money had to be used to replace
Rtb would be fine if they build as many sell off old housing that needs a lot of work
We also have a lot of ha / councik houses but just a higher demand as larger population and also silly house prices
For some of us stuck in council houses rtb is only way out but its like we should always stay in a council house , and long term temancies in council houses are being phased out in many areas so its not as secure as it once was