Drug/drink addicts around the town centre, begging, urinating in public. General A.S.B

[Smokyk]

Does anybody else have a similar problem locally to them? I live in Catford (S.E London) and I'm honestly sick of the sight of it.

Whenever I go to my local Tesco I'm hounded by drug addicts for money. I can't sit down on a bench for 5 minutes to rest my legs without being approached (I'm 8 months pregnant)

There are a group of drinkers that sit near the Costa all day every day, spilling booze all over the place and pissing up the walls in full view of passing children (including mine) making the area smell like a urinal. There are signs saying it's a no drinking zone but they take no notice.

Yesterday we walked past one of these men openly smoking crack at the side of a shop making no effort to conceal it.

Another bloke, drunk as a skunk and in a group of several tried giving my DD (2) a high five and terrified her.

How tone deaf need you be to approach a lone pregnant woman with a toddler when you're out of your head and in a group?

I've been asked for cigarettes and verbally abused when I've said I don't smoke.

One of the well known beggers even harasses people inside cafes.

It's absolutely disgusting.

What is the answer? A petition? Or do us normal locals just have to accept it is what it is? I can't move.

This thread isn’t about the homeless. We have lots of homeless people too where I live, they don’t bother anyone generally speaking. They might approach you and ask politely for a small donation. Recently my friend got asked and said I’ll go to the supermarket and buy what you like and the homeless guy asked for just a bottle of cold tea and a package of biscuits.

I often give them some money or buy them a sandwich or a cold or hot drink or even some dog food as many of them have one or several dogs and have a little chat with them when I give them stuff or money. I genuinely feel sorry for them and wish them well in life. I am very sure 99% of the posters on this thread feel or would do the same. We don’t wish bad on homeless people, we just don’t want men intimidating us on the street, exposing themselves, using drugs in front of our DC REGARDLESS of if they’re homeless or not. I really don’t understand why some posters here just don’t get this.

User not the point if the thread but Homeless were mentioned last year in US as seeming to be surprisingly resilient to covid. Vit D and being outdoors proposed as factors. Not sure how it's panned out.

big part of it is also the effective decriminalisation of drugs, there's no disincentive to trying them now is there

Actually it's the opposite. As was observed from the prohibition of one of the most dangerous poisons that humans use (alcohol) in 1920s America.

50-60 years ago the UK was leading the way on drugs policy. We went backwards with our misuse of drugs acts. Heroin addicts in the first half of the 20th century registered with their GP and received a safe medicinal dose. Then they got on with their lives. Most led perfectly normal productive working lives. No-one would know they were addicts except for their doctor.

Criminalising addicts was a gift for organised crime. It created an incentive to illegal dealers to push their products and increase their market.

Throughout history human beings have sought solace from physical and/or emotional pain through the use of various substances. Criminalising their choices creates the worst problems associated with this.

@LaBellina

This thread isn’t about the homeless. We have lots of homeless people too where I live, they don’t bother anyone generally speaking. They might approach you and ask politely for a small donation. Recently my friend got asked and said I’ll go to the supermarket and buy what you like and the homeless guy asked for just a bottle of cold tea and a package of biscuits.

I often give them some money or buy them a sandwich or a cold or hot drink or even some dog food as many of them have one or several dogs and have a little chat with them when I give them stuff or money. I genuinely feel sorry for them and wish them well in life. I am very sure 99% of the posters on this thread feel or would do the same. We don’t wish bad on homeless people, we just don’t want men intimidating us on the street, exposing themselves, using drugs in front of our DC REGARDLESS of if they’re homeless or not. I really don’t understand why some posters here just don’t get this.

Yes this in spades.

I have absolutely no ill will towards homeless people and I don't know anybody that has. Like you, I will often buy food and drink if they're happy to receive it.

I have endless sympathy for the genuinely homeless.

This is definitely not about them.

I think people are seriously ignorant and misinformed if they think homeless people and the people I'm referring to are of the same criteria.

I come from a family of addicts and have had my own share of problems in my youth. I feel a huge amount of empathy towards addicts, most of them have gone through horrific upbringings and live with unresolved trauma, ptsd, personality disorders and untreated sen.

That said, the alcoholics that hang out at my local shops piss me off. They fight and swear, intimidate young girls, and one was recently arrested for masturbating in a cafe window in the middle of the day. Another time I was stood outside the Co-op unwrapping an ice cream for Dd6, and one shouted "go on, suck it, ram it down your throat". I don't judge anyone for their life choices, but I'm also not responsible for what went wrong in their lives and do not have to suffer the abuse. I understand why they do it. Hurt people will hurt other people. But your trauma is not my responsibility so take that shit away from me and my kids if you can't be civil.

I feel your pain. I am absolutely fed up to the back teeth of inhaling second hand cannabis smoke - which my 2 year old is also constantly exposed to. Not to mention the drug dealing outside shops, gang related crime etc…. They wouldn’t tolerate this shit on Kensington high street but we are supposed to just suck it up in the less salubrious parts of London. Pisses me off. Firstly I think the council need to get involved, local communities need to have direct input into local policing . And where crime is commited the police need to act and more importantly, the courts need to impose punishment. It’s all very well having sympathy with these people but there are plenty of law abiding citizens, including kids, who can’t go about their lives in a normal way because of their behaviour. My local parks are often a no go zone and the playgrounds littered with drug paraphernalia early in the morning.

If you had a choice of living in an area where lots of drug addicts congregate or an area where they don't, I don't think anyone would choose the former.

Totally agree op. I bet 100% that the “harassing men who expose themselves to children are people too” dont live in the area where that sort of thing happens.

Why is heroin illegal? It's addictive, yes, but it's a less harmful drug than alcohol. The risks come mainly from the illegality including the unknown purity.

We're told by the current government that we must live with risks. Many more people have died or are suffering long term illness from Covid than from heroin.

We're told that we must use 'personal responsibility' when it comes to Covid hygiene and risks (despite the fact that our choices affect the lives of others).

Why not the same for drugs? As the government says re Covid, life is full of risks. Legalised drugs are far less damaging to both the person taking them and wider community than criminalising them.

Legalise and tax. It would be a major step forwards in tackling gang crime, and the user would be guaranteed a safe medicinal dose.

Much better for society to get the money as tax rather than letting it fund violent criminals. Some of that tax could be used to fund drug treatments, mental health care, and social services support.

@Tealightsandd

Why is heroin illegal? It's addictive, yes, but it's a less harmful drug than alcohol. The risks come mainly from the illegality including the unknown purity.

We're told by the current government that we must live with risks. Many more people have died or are suffering long term illness from Covid than from heroin.

We're told that we must use 'personal responsibility' when it comes to Covid hygiene and risks (despite the fact that our choices affect the lives of others).

Why not the same for drugs? As the government says re Covid, life is full of risks. Legalised drugs are far less damaging to both the person taking them and wider community than criminalising them.

Legalise and tax. It would be a major step forwards in tackling gang crime, and the user would be guaranteed a safe medicinal dose.

Much better for society to get the money as tax rather than letting it fund violent criminals. Some of that tax could be used to fund drug treatments, mental health care, and social services support.

Brilliant, but back in the real world, OP is dealing with this

@Smokyk

All these people playong "oh what a horrible person, have a sympathy" are pretty unfair, bet you that if you speak to the businesses and people in areas with this problems, they will tell you about break ins, threats, theft

Yep exactly, like the woman I've been talking to for the best part of the afternoon. Her home keeps getting broken into by the bunch I'm posting about.

She has worked for the NHS for 20 years treating and helping people, caring about others, to now find herself signed off work and diagnosed with PTSD because she's terrified to leave her flat and isn't coping. Today she has thanked me for caring and listening to her because no bugger else has.

All too busy pitying the criminals no doubt.

She has lobbied our MP, contacted the police on a daily basis at times, written to the council, begged her landlord to step in and help. Nobody is giving a shit about people like her but we're expected to extend endless sympathy to the very people who are making others lives an utter misery.

I'm not sure if it'll help in her, or indeed her neighbours cases, but the local addicts were breaking into people's cars and houses here, everyone got ring doorbells so we could prove that our cars and houses were being targeted. On quite a few occasions it proved who had burgled houses. Always the same group of people. It did take about 18 months for the police to act, but eventually they did.

So what do people want to do about it? Shoot them? Or, given that most people can't afford to do what politicians do and flee to leafy suburbs, how about doing something about the causes instead? Costs a bit of money upfront but safer communities is priceless (and it will be cheaper long-term too).

the local addicts were breaking into people's cars and houses here

Yep. Criminalisation leads to more crime. Pre misuse of drugs act, addicts didn't turn to crime to fund their habits. They got their dose prescribed by the GP.

It's not as if politicians are anti drugs. Well at least not for themselves. Remember the tests done a few years ago in the Houses of Parliament. Traces of cocaine were found throughout.

It's the same in my town. Zombies staggering around in broad daylight. Fights on the street.

The result is that most people here just won't come into town. At all. That's absolutely decimated the town over time, businesses have steadily closed and now the council has been forced to step in and do something about it.

Don't dehumanize people. They are people, not zombies

@DetroitNeedsADog

Don't dehumanize people. They are people, not zombies

They are humans who are causing their fellow humans misery though. And nothing is done because it's a poor area anyway, so who cares really? The locals can complain and report endlessly and nothing is ever done, because it's in an area the people who make the decisions never go to.

I mean they're on spice. I'd love to help them but I cannot approach them. I have absolutely no idea if they are a threat to me or not. There's no point calling an ambulance for them. There is literally nothing I can do for them. Just imagine my town centre (sometimes also in the surrounding villages) with multiple people standing there, completely out of it. In the middle of the day. With your child asking you why that man is standing there and what's wrong with him. That is genuinely what it is like.

@DetroitNeedsADog have you seen some of them? Zombies is a bloody accurate description.

If you don't know the area, I can assure you it was like that well before the Tories came into power

I worked for Lewisham council in 1990/91. It was like that even then.

War on drugs going as well as ever.

@LakieLady

If you don't know the area, I can assure you it was like that well before the Tories came into power

I worked for Lewisham council in 1990/91. It was like that even then.

Its all a shit hole now. I remember when Lewisham was ok compared to Depford/new Cross. Catford was not as good as Lewisham but still better than depford. But now they are all shit holes . Gets a bit better in downham

Well of course there's always the option of actually reinstating the safety net of secure housing, welfare benefits at a level enough to survive and maintain dignity, and - here's the real radical idea - well funded and well run public services. Social care, mental health services, substance abuse support, etc. Oh and good employment and training opportunities including proper old style apprenticeships and on-the-job work training

Or we could just continue leaving people to rot whilst spreading the misery and suffering to the wider community

This.

I'm an addict. Luckily I'm (recently) housed. Yes I don't engage in some of the antisocial behaviour you wrote about which is absolutely wrong, of course. I've begged before but was never pushy because I had alternatives, even if those alternatives weren't good for me. Addiction warps your morals so I get why they are accosting people for money.

But to the posters who insist there's help out there they don't take it etc etc This is bullshit. The services I used years ago are now gone. No funding given. The reason I'm an addict is because I have very severe PTSD, I cannot cope with without numbing. To live in constant trauma without it would be too horrific. My GP is sympathetic but I am on a 18 MONTH - 2 YEAR waiting list for trauma therapy or psychiatry. A family member is on the same length waiting list. I get hassle from the DWP which makes my mh worse just to keep receiving a pittance and have to keep appealing that I'm unfit to work. Of course I'm unfit to work, I can barely leave the house, I cannot sleep, I get panic attacks and flashbacks multiple times a day. YET I WAIT 18 MONTHS TO 2 YEARS FOR HELP. I gave 12 sessions of cbt my all and it didn't help. The lady said it's not appropriate for me.

Not everyone can pay for mental health help like so many seem to do.

It's unreal that people keep voting for this kind of thing.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to say that when the general public / society don't stand up and demand better services, then yes, addict behaviour (some hurt people hurt people, and they are probably past caring or too out of it to care about public decency) will be out there to see for you 'decent law abiding citizens'.

@LaBellina

This thread isn’t about the homeless. We have lots of homeless people too where I live, they don’t bother anyone generally speaking. They might approach you and ask politely for a small donation. Recently my friend got asked and said I’ll go to the supermarket and buy what you like and the homeless guy asked for just a bottle of cold tea and a package of biscuits.

I often give them some money or buy them a sandwich or a cold or hot drink or even some dog food as many of them have one or several dogs and have a little chat with them when I give them stuff or money. I genuinely feel sorry for them and wish them well in life. I am very sure 99% of the posters on this thread feel or would do the same. We don’t wish bad on homeless people, we just don’t want men intimidating us on the street, exposing themselves, using drugs in front of our DC REGARDLESS of if they’re homeless or not. I really don’t understand why some posters here just don’t get this.

👏👏👏

@Pinksoda15

I mean they're on spice. I'd love to help them but I cannot approach them. I have absolutely no idea if they are a threat to me or not. There's no point calling an ambulance for them. There is literally nothing I can do for them. Just imagine my town centre (sometimes also in the surrounding villages) with multiple people standing there, completely out of it. In the middle of the day. With your child asking you why that man is standing there and what's wrong with him. That is genuinely what it is like.

That spice is horrendous isn't it.

About 6 months or so ago I was walking home from the shop, without the kids thankfully, and I came across a young man unconscious sprawled across the path. There were people staring from across the road but nobody approached him to check if he was breathing or not, they were too scared to I assume.

I phoned an ambulance and stayed with him until it came, a passing police car pulled over to help me and see what was going on a few minutes before the ambulance arrived. One of the officers checked his pockets for ID and found the cause of his condition - spice.

When put in the recovery position he partly came to and was kicking out and thrashing, totally out of it and didn't know what was going on. He was spluttering, coughing and pleading for help.

I stayed at his side trying to calm him down whilst it took two police officers and both paramedics to get him onto the stretcher and secure him enough to put him in the ambulance.

It was horrendous to witness and I asked the police to update me if they could and let me know whether he was going to be ok.

I thought of nothing else for the next few days.

But I have no empathy apparently.

As I said throughout the thread It's not the addiction I judge it's the antisocial behaviour.

By the way, just because you donate money or buy someone who's begging something - doesn't mean they necessarily appreciate you 'having a little chat' with them. Some of us are quiet people in general and prefer not to chat. Some of us may be begging for money or food etc to avoid having to do other stuff for money. FYI.