To think I'll never be able to afford DCs university

[TrackyBottomsTuckedinSocks]

Conversation with people last night mentioned their DCs came out of uni with 60K debts. Also the cost of paying their DCs rent and everything else. (Student loan covers tuition fees?) We're in the bracket that doesn't qualify for financial assistance, but doesn't have too much left over at the end of the month either, with no extravagant lifestyle to boot. Do I discourage DC from going to uni (next Sept) or do we accept that a debt like that is an inevitability/investment? I feel so worried about it

DS2 left university with no debt. He was very lucky because he had a bursary and no tuition fees as he did Adult Nursing. However his bursary didn’t cover his rent so we had to subsidise him which wasn’t easy as I’m disabled and can’t work so we only have DH’s wage.

He got himself a part time job within a week or two of being there. The vast majority of his peers on his course did the same. His girlfriend, also a nurse, lived at home and got £80 a month so she had no choice but to work.

I think cost of living should be factored in to choice of Uni, especially as it doesn't sound as if your DC is heading for Oxbridge and doesn't have a definite course they want to follow. We told our DS that we wouldn't be impressed if he chose London for example due to the cost of accommodation. Plenty of good Unis in places where rent and cost of living in general is a lot cheaper.

Chances are they can do some work on the side. I did an engineering course which involves full days - as opposed to the couple of hours you may get on many humanities courses (my DP did one of these so we had the direct comparison) - and I managed to work at the weekends to pay my way. I only took a loan in my postgrad year cause that I needed to work less hours to focus on the more intense course.

@19lottie82

But you don't pay fees!

No, but in the rest of the UK you don’t have to pay the fees upfront, so this can’t really be tacked on to the “can’t afford it argument”.

Also English students do not need to start paying anything back on the loan until they are earning over £26,575/year, in Scotland it is repaid on earnings over £19,300/year which means Scottish students are more likely to repay in full over the lifetime of the loan.

I think you are putting far too much stress on yourself and are being daft. Your son will get a full loan to cover his tuition fees but maybe not the full amount for living costs. He therfore lives at home and goes somewhere local he can commute to, gets a part time job whilst at uni although it would have been helpful to have started part time work at 16 (appreciate not always easy). if he wants to go away to uni then he needs to consider the cost of living in a particular city and look at the uni accommodation available. Newer accommodation is more expensive as will be having your own en suite which is nice but not a necessity. I went to uni and my parents didn't put a penny towards anything because they couldn't afford to. I stayed at home because I saved money and avoided the need for a living loan because I found a part time job to cover my buss pass, lunch and going out money. My parents provided a roof over my head, all meals and I am grateful. My degree was full on 40 hours a week contact time but I picked up late shifts in the evening, early morning shifts at the weekend and extra shifts when needed. You do what you have to, going to uni is a choice.

There are a lot of options.
(Degree) apprenticeships, online/part-time/2 year condensed degrees, industry specific qualifications that can be converted into a degree. Like this:

www.accaglobal.com/gb/en/help/oxford-brookes.html#What-do-I-need-to-do-to-be-awarded-the-BSc-degree?

Figure out what you can afford and tell your DC you will only be paying that. Help them explore all options and let THEM decide whether they want to do a 3 year degree.

While I agree with people saying that the uni experience matures people, it’s a carefree time you’ll never get back etc etc it’s not worth parents getting into financial trouble.

Only worth stretching yourself if your DC is academic / have a passion for a particular subject. My parents used their retirement funds to send me but I got into the top uni for my subject with no coaching etc whatsoever. Joined lots of clubs/societies, networked. Graduated with a first and got into a well-paid role straight out of uni.

I review CV’s as part of my job and there are plenty of young people with degrees (even MA’s) who have held nothing but receptionist/admin jobs for 4-5 years after graduating. They might as well have stayed home, done the degree online and saved themselves the money.

Only you know your DC and what benefit they’d get from uni.

But the loans are means tested, which means that they are set at an amount that is affordable.

On an income of £60k (with 2 tax allowances and no higher rate tax to pay) you have a pretty good monthly take home (about £4k ish per month). And you'll need to give your son approx £420 a month to top him up to the required level. Unless you have a very extravagant lifestyle, or have significant debts from previous financial mismanagement, this really should be affordable on your household income, especially given its only for 3 years. Surely this hasn't come as a surprise to you? You've had 18 years to plan for it!

Have you actually sat down and looked at your budget? IME when we looked at what we were “saving” from DC no longer living with us during term time, we found we’d pretty much covered the rent vs loan shortfall and food costs. Savings we made were on food at home ( they ate our more than basic food at home and lots of it- living by themselves meant they had to be more economical with what we gave them- but it was enough)., car insurance at home and our petrol running around and being taxi for them, their phone charges, clothes, etc etc .

In total for each DC we took around £5000 out of our savings over the entire 3 years to top up their grants. Yes, I know it is more than some folks can afford-but those folks should have children receiving maximum loans.
I think it is vital to not restrict your children form going to uni if they want this and it is a good course with good job prospects. See it as an investment, if you pay out now and get them into a position of higher wage independence it’ll cost you less in long term than them living at home in low paid jobs for years
BUT, I’d also strongly recommend you look at apprenticeships or other routes into well paid, secure long term careers. It’ll still cost you as they’ll probably live at home longer, but they would have some sort of minimal income coming in. I think it is vital that kids don’t automatically jump into uni route particularly if they are less academic and more practical- it is a shame that schools seem to not promote the benefits of this more.

@Sceptre86

I think you are putting far too much stress on yourself and are being daft. Your son will get a full loan to cover his tuition fees but maybe not the full amount for living costs. He therfore lives at home and goes somewhere local he can commute to, gets a part time job whilst at uni although it would have been helpful to have started part time work at 16 (appreciate not always easy). if he wants to go away to uni then he needs to consider the cost of living in a particular city and look at the uni accommodation available. Newer accommodation is more expensive as will be having your own en suite which is nice but not a necessity. I went to uni and my parents didn't put a penny towards anything because they couldn't afford to. I stayed at home because I saved money and avoided the need for a living loan because I found a part time job to cover my buss pass, lunch and going out money. My parents provided a roof over my head, all meals and I am grateful. My degree was full on 40 hours a week contact time but I picked up late shifts in the evening, early morning shifts at the weekend and extra shifts when needed. You do what you have to, going to uni is a choice.

I think staying at home is fine but do believe you miss out on some things. Be careful in choosing that as an option Mind you with covid, most students have effectively stayed at home anyway, sadly,

I agree with a PP, you will be surprised by the money saved by them not being at home.
Actually I only noticed how much DD1 actually cost us when she came home for the first lockdown yet at uni her grocery bills are tiny cos she realises when she's paying what things cost.
She more than makes up with it when she's home however. She'd never been interested in coming to do a supermarket shop before but now she comes home and is like a tiny child in a sweetly shop (and leaves our cupboards bare when she leaves us 😂)

@user1497207191
At one particular "big 4" accountancy firm, the available trainee positions for school leavers are at technician level, whereas trainee positions for graduates are chartered level. That means you end up spending a lot longer working on low wages and studying evenings and weekends. Many trainees give up once they've achieved technician level, which is a shame, but they can't continue with the work/study workload for a few more years! I understand it's similar with engineering, where the apprentice school leaver positions are similarly aiming at lower professional levels than graduates who have more options.
Just to clarify here. Yes, it’s true that apprentices go in at a lower level and have to take a different qualification first. However, they still on average end up a year ahead of graduates, ie they spend two years at “below graduate” level before in their third year they are the same as the new grads, whereas the grads have spent three years at uni.

Also, the reason many of them don’t go straight into chartered is chartered requires a prior qualification - degrees count, a levels don’t. So they study thr technician level first so they’re eligible to study for chartered.

It’s definitely not for everyone but it’s also not the firms being randomly evil.

DD's STEM course is pretty much 9 - 5 plus as many self study hours as well. She has ME/CFS, and struggles to keep on top of her workload, so I have no expectations of her working during term time.

Some of her friends work, but many don't.

@TrackyBottomsTuckedinSocks if your DC doesn't know what he/she wants to do (I hate using they, it sounds grammatically incorrect to pedantic me ) wouldn't taking a gap year or two and working be a better option?

DD wasn't sure what path to follow when her medical school application was (thank goodness as it turned out) unsuccessful, so she took a gap year, worked and volunteered and applied with A level grades in hand to do what she initially decided to do. She is enjoying her course, and loves the city she is in.

Having worked my own way through Uni as a mature student and still ended up with an excellent degree I applaud the decision for students to pay their way by working. It teaches discipline, time management and ability to prioritise conflicting demands. Perhaps some students are paid for entirely by parents but your DC will emerge a stronger and more resilliant person from having worked their ass off.

I would always encourage my own child to go to uni if that was the option they preferred but when you are not affluent your child must "cut his coat according to the available cloth" to use an old fashioned expression.

We were in a similar position so made it clear to DD that we would help out when we could but she should not rely on money from us.

Her maintenance loan did not cover her rent, we did manage to cover the difference for her and give her money for food by DH working some overtime. Socialising she paid for using a part time job. She did consider going to uni close to home but was keen to live away for the 3 years. She actually got a part time weekend job a year before uni and saved more than half of her earnings for uni which meant she had some time to find a job when she started.

I think it was a good lesson for her and she is now really careful with her money.

Also English students do not need to start paying anything back on the loan until they are earning over £26,575/year, in Scotland it is repaid on earnings over £19,300/year which means Scottish students are more likely to repay in full over the lifetime of the loan.

The salary threshold is £25,000 in Scotland.

The threshold is £27,295 in England.

460/month is over 15k total. So for eg dc 3yo i would neec to be saving over 1153 ayear. Then add on 9yo at 1600 a year. So £229 a month. Even if you ear a lot that is a lot of money.

I definitely think the government should make the parental contribution clearer, and then most people on this income could afford it, but people need to be aware that circumstances might mean that money just isn't available (high rent in South East, multiple dc at uni at same time, or live in partner whose income it is based on who can't or won't contribute - or has their own dc at uni). I'm in this bracket with two dc so need 30k and we have saved £500 a month for four years towards this since mortgage paid off and thank god now have had a windfall to put towards it but I don't imagine most people are in a position to save this much - yes we will still be earning when they go so don't need to save it all in advance but much happier to do so as we also want to save towards retirement which will be soon after they graduate.

Things could be worse. I have two in uni at the same time, in the US. It's been painful, and we've been saving for it since they were toddlers.

Living at home if they can go locally sounds like a fine plan.

We have similar income to OP & found the loans DD could get seemed quite generous.

I find MNer enthusiasm about slagging off Uni degrees very puzzling. If your DC feels they can make their time at Uni successful and the University education will help them career/job wise then I would be minded to support that plan, even if they "have no idea what they want to do". "No idea what they want to do" describes exactly what I was like when I went to Uni. In retrospect I am fully certain that Uni degree was the best path for me.

ps: DC joined Army after GCSEs & another DC seems likely headed for apprenticeship after A-levels. So I am pretty sure I come from a position of very much valuing non-Uni pathways much more than most MNers, no bias against those paths, but Uni is good path too.

University isn't compulsory you know...

Lookanr Degree apprenticeships

There's a lot of other options than uni. They could get a job and save for a few years and go when they can support themselves. That's what my brother did. You don't actually have to pay especially if you don't have the money.

I wouldn't stress yourself out about this.

I lived away from uni and at the time got the minimum of around 4K. I worked part time while I was there and managed my time well.

Through doing this I was able to top up my maintenance loan in order to pay my rent and bills and whatever else I needed.

My parents didn't spend any money on me.

Remember that uni is an investment for your child so if it's something they want to do then they should look at how they can fund this for themselves and their future. It's not your responsibility to see them through financially, though of course it would be nice if you could afford it.

I lived at home and went to uni. My parents couldn't give me any cash as they didn't have it but they could provide free board and food. I worked when not in uni so didnt accrue huge debts

We’re in the same position and have 2 going next year, I’m disabled and DH’s wage is our only income

For various health reasons neither DC can work and need to be based at home for support so they are applying to our 2 local universities and plan to car share if they go to the one further away( we live by the first)

Since we will be covering their housing/eating/transport/phone cost they will have their student loan for other costs and both will be entitled to DSA