AIBU to think this isn't normal behaviour for a 5 year old

[BergamotMouse]

Mostly posting here for traffic. Sorry if long.

My DD (5 years old) has such a lot of energy. Assumed it was normal but her calm 2 year old brother is making us question this a little.

She cannot sit still! Will rotate in her chair at meal times, cutlery clattering to the floor, drinks knocked over etc. If watching TV she will often be bouncing or be upside down, suddenly diving across the sofa for no reason.

She still has really big emotional outbursts, cannot control herself and will try to hurt us, she almost appears to shake with rage. These can last an hour or so.

She will not stop talking, interrupts frequently. Will often say 'mummy' or 'daddy...' to start a question with no direction and then just find something to fill it with.

She has issues with the toilet, constipation (on medication for this), will still have damp pants and is very against being told to go even though she's dancing around clearly desperate.

But on the other hand she is a fantastic big sister, patient most of the time with her brother and very kind. Plays with him intensely. Likes make believe but neither of them really play with toys.

They have very little screen time, Half an hour a day or so, sometimes none and we try and have them outside most of the day. She is absolutely fine when outside, we have no issues with behaviour then.

No issues from school, doing fine academically, I'm led to believe she's very well behaved. Ahead of where she should be with her reading, slightly behind with maths. She has some very close friendships (seems quite intense) but will be quite cold and distant with others. Children from school will shout hi to her in the park and she will give a brief wave, if that, and when I ask who it is she says she doesn't know.

I don't know what I'm thinking, Some kind of ADHD? Somewhere on the autism spectrum? I'm a teacher so don't say this lightly. Or is this just typical 5 year old behaviour?

@ScreamingDribbleBibble

What's her diet like? Any relationship between behaviour and certain foods enumbers/sugar/processedfood/drinks

Diet is ok, porridge for breakfast, fruit snacks, sandwiches, home cooked dinner. Puddings etc at weekends. School meals seem like junk food though, pizza, fish fingers, hot dogs etc.

She does have squash to hide the taste of the movicol constipation medicine.

Some children will 'behave' at school - following rules etc. But then at home they're a different child - because they can be. They need the release.
Maybe keep a diary of behaviors etc and you might start noticing patterns.

I remember both my kids being challenging like this at 5 years old. So I think it's normal. I do think though it's a time to also put the law down. Nothing wrong with clearly putting some boundaries for behaviour inside the home. I found we had to really enforce the rules in this period. Have you maybe been too tolerant so far? I have noticed that being too tolerant at certain ages leads to difficult behaviour and over active behaviour and an unwillingness to listen. Like "if this was allowed then maybe I can do this even more extreme thing and get away with it"

My dd (8) is just like this and always has been. Her arms and legs are constantly flailing around, she can't sit still on a chair, can't sit through an entire movie...actually can't even manage a 20 minute tv programme. She talks constantly. I once made a note of how frequently she spoke at times when she should be trying to be quiet (in this instance, a movie night watching Harry Potter) and the longest she managed not to talk was around 45 seconds. She's always tripping over stuff or falling off chairs. She is constantly fidgeting, moving, talking, flopping around, tripping over. She isn't like this at school at all and is able to concentrate for long periods of time so I don't think she has anything "wrong" with her- this is just her. Her 3 year old brother on the other hand can sit through an entire movie with no difficulty at all.

@CheshireChat

I apologise if I'm being stupid, but how do wobble cushions actually work? They don't look or sound that comfy, what am I missing?

For children who are under-responsive to sensory input (sensory seeking), they provide the tactile or vestibular input which they will otherwise get by doing other things that don't look or sound that comfy and are also unsafe, like eating dinner while jumping up and down or hanging upside down from the back of the sofa.

I was a bit unsure about ours at first as it does look faintly bed-of-nails, but DC loves it and says she can't get comfy without it.

Sounds like my DS8 who is currently being assessed for ADHD. Trust your instincts OP. Friends claim my DS is just like their DC...he really isn't...

I don't know if it's normal or not but my cousin's DD has ASD and sensory seeking behaviour (cannot sit still), they bought a trampoline and a swing for the garden and say it has helped a great deal. Their DD spend ages on them and it really relaxes her.

You're basically describing my DD and I was convinced she had ADHD until last year (aged 7) when she started to calm down.
She's still sensitive and fidgety but has really come on leaps and bounds.

KarmaViolet thank you, your explanation makes a lot more sense than what was on the couple of websites I looked at!

Now trying to figure out if DS would love or hate it.

My daughter also does the “mummy” without known what she is going to say next… so it Will be “mummy, mummy, mummy… whilst she is thinking of something to say..! She also never ever stops talking,I try and listen and answer all the questions but it’s tough, when you’re tired, run down, never stop. I was exhausted on Saturday when I was out with her in a shop, she was talking at me incessantly and I had zoned out for a second whilst I was looking for some tablets that I needed and some woman made a snotty remark about “ignoring” a little girl - made me feel terrible and was on my mind all weekend. The thing is with my daughter is that when she was about 1 we were actually a bit worried whether she had speech delay as she wouldn’t talk she would just point, so I just keep reminding myself I should be grateful I have a very chatty and sociable child. Your daughter sounds very normal/typical to me x

@MummyCroft

Some children will 'behave' at school - following rules etc. But then at home they're a different child - because they can be. They need the release. Maybe keep a diary of behaviors etc and you might start noticing patterns.

This ^ children can learn masking behaviours quite young, I was consciously masking at 5.

If you are unsure OP perhaps a referral might be a good idea.

Given that women with ADHD and Autism present quite differently and often get missed because of this until they seek diagnosis as adults.

I wonder does it get picked up on quicker for girls at school these days or are they still falling through the cracks because they have learnt to mask their behaviours to various degrees?

There's a lot of info about ADHD in this comic, written by Emma who wrote 'The Mental Load'

english.emmaclit.com/2021/03/18/lucine-and-enzo/

@BergamotMouse

Yes, perhaps just normal. I've always passed it off as being high energy but we find ourselves struggling more and more with the constant motion and talking. We're done in by the end of a weekend and short tempered.

All of mine spent most of their time upside down from the age 4/5 to about 9/10. Every wall was a good wall for a handstand and most had little heel marks! Cartwheeling came in at a certain time too. And very clumsy to greater or lesser degree. Their legs and arms seemed too long, and the brain was not able to command them. Their spatial context was bizarre! As were the place holder questions, starting to say something but forgetting it mid flow - bonkers!

Now they are right side up, have a command of their memory, control of their body and even though I love this phase I do miss all the weird, kookie upsidedownness of young kids!

Enjoy it!

It does sound a bit like my DS who has sensory processing difficulties but no other diagnosis. However his does spill over into school. He can concentrate for a time and then will have a burst of needing to run around/spin/crash into things. He's constantly moving, talking and has difficulties regulating his emotions. He isnt mean but can be rough as he doesn't know his strength, ie a tap for him is a hit as his body doesn't recognise touch the same.

DS (also 5) is like this, but is extremely impatient/intolerant with DD (just turned 3), and his behaviour is the same at school and outdoors as well as indoors.

He's on the assessment pathway for ASD (would have had his diagnosis by now if it wasn't for COVID), but everyone including his consultant speaks as if it's a given he has it. There's recently been discussion around ADHD and Sensory Processing disorder. There's also just been an Occupational Therapy referral due to gross motor delay (general clumsiness, and genuine trouble with basic things such as dressing himself) and toileting issues (still not securely toilet trained).

AS plenty PP have said, it could be completely normal 5 year old behaviour, that will change in time as she learns to be aware of, understand and regulate her behaviours and emotions.

If you're still concerned something specific could be underpinning those behaviours, speak with the school and see what they weigh in with, and see if you would like some form of referral/assessment. The key thing with DS, is that his behaviours are becoming more pronounced rather than improving/lessening as he gets older. That's what made us choose the referral/assessment route.

No, very abnormal to have a calm 2yo. Get him checked.

Very similar to our daughter (8 with ADHD) except that our daughter struggled with learning (reading was fine, she loves it and picked it up very quickly), she also span in circles, hid under tables etc at school when the work was too hard for her.

For ADHD to be diagnosed it has to present in 2 or more settings, school and home for example. It does often go unnoticed until a bit later than 5 as all 5 year olds are wiggle but as kids age if it is present it will become more obvious as the other kids around him mature and settle.

@50ShadesOfCatholic

No, very abnormal to have a calm 2yo. Get him checked.

Really?

If you have a full on child and the 2nd child is more placid, of course the 2nd will come across to you as calm and quiet.

** Wiggly, not wiggle (sorry, I am sure I wrote those in correctly and they autocorrected).

@StoppinBy

well no i was kidding duh

I've got a 5 year old who is pretty much exactly as you have described (except the raging for an hour bit) I think it sounds normal tbh

How much exercise is she getting ? Sounds like she needs wearing out a bit more.

@mellongoose

How much exercise is she getting ? Sounds like she needs wearing out a bit more.

I'm not sure I could wear her out much more. She does gymnastics class, ballet class. We do a weekend walk most days (3 miles or so) and then they spend most of the day in the garden which is big and plenty of space to run. She has a climbing frame. Lots of bike riding and scooting. We gone try and have as little time in the house as possible because that's when it's hard work.

Dc have a massive range of what is normal. My 2 couldn't be more opposite in every way both personality and development wise and at times it did have me questioning things. Dd1 is 12 now and only now does she sit normally warning tv. For years she'd wriggle around contorted in to weird yoga type positions. Being lively isn't a sign of any issues. The toileting could be linked to her constipation as there is unpleasant associations. Definitely not picking up signs of ASD from what you've written

@50ShadesOfCatholic

No, very abnormal to have a calm 2yo. Get him checked.