to think there is an inverse relationship between how little money people have and how much they are willing to spend on presents for their children

[Twiglett]

am truly gobsmacked at some of the things that people I know are buying for their children

truly and utterly, spoilt bastard, gobsmacked

why spend that much money? why?

Well my charges are getting a goat sent to a third world country from me this year. I told them that i refused to spend a whole heap of money on stuff for them that would be a five minute wonder, then left to collect dust!
Not sure if they belive i'll actually do it either...but guess what kiddies...it's already done!

my dh loves to shop, so Chrismas is a great excuse for him to spend loads of money.

Me? I can't think of anything I want, apart from a few books

I just want a new mobile phone - my one is probably the oldest one still in use in the Western World - and has a battery life of oooo - about 1 day, a message inbox that can hold (on a good day) about 6 messages and is basically had it - it was one of DH's YEARS ago which he passed onto me when he got a new one.....

HappyDaddy, I agree that a large part of the problem is how readily available credit is.
What cna you do though? If credit was only given to those who can really afford it then the people that need credit to furnish their house or MOT their car etc wouldn't have anyway of doing it.

I think it is easier for 'comfortable' families to hold back and be 'sensible' over Christmas presents because it may be that their children get mor opportunities and more stuff ('needed' for school, projects etc) throughout the year. If you spend your year saying 'no' to kids, and watching them being envious all year i con completely understand the temptation to burst the banks and say a great big fat 'yes' at Christmas.

(ahem - and I speak as someone who is modestly comfortable - not struggling with debt etc - but has not been at all sensible...have just added up what we have got for DS and it comes to £128! Way beyond what we meant to spend.
All good playing / reading value though)

" completely understand the temptation to burst the banks and say a great big fat 'yes' at Christmas."

Well exactly!

I must admit one of the things which never fails to surprise me on here is the amount of space people devote to talking - either in heavy hints or directly - about how much money they have and what they are spending it on.

Advertising is another great evil.

Places like DFS start advertising stuff "ready in time for Christmas" way back in the autumn.

So now we are expected to have dozens of matching dining room chairs and huge sofas as well as shelling out for all the food and presents!

where will it end?

And the sales are another great bug bear of mine.

Come christmas, I'm so sick of shopping, I never want to see another shop again.

To say that rich people spend loads of money on their kids during the year so don't feel they have to spend more at xmas is just as vague/general as saying poor people don't spend any money on their kids all year and go mad at xmas, to me there is no correlation between wealth and being spoilt at xmas.

I believe that people who go mad at xmas also, generally, go mad on birthdays, tooth fairy days, easter etc. I come from a relatively poor background and didnt get much throughout the year per se, maybe the odd treat of a magazine or some panini stickers, but at christmas we always got a big present, not not necessarily an expensive one, just something that you wouldnt expect to get at any other time. And those who were spoilt at xmas were usually even poorer than us but got regular pocket money, were in all the local clubs, had the latest trainers and one was even given her child benefit money "as it was for her not her parents!!"

To the OP, I think you are totally right, people spend way beyond their means at xmas- a colleauge of mine is amazingly skint with 5 kids and no kitchen (ripped it out 2 years ago but can't afford to put one back in! Now they live on microwave meals and take aways) but feels it necessary to buy each of his 4 boys new football shirts every season and the latest Playstation/ Wii etc EACH for xmas.. Why??

My DS (10mths) has had £50 budget set on his head for xmas but I have only spent £30 and probably won't get anything else. Whereas his fairly wealthy MIL will no doubt spend hundreds and when I told her what we'd bought him she said "is that all? you are so mean you two!".

My SIL has no money and buys huge expensive presents over christmas and actually whenever she has any spare cash throughout the year.

Dh and I are very comfortably off and quite tight with what we spend.

I have thought a lot about why this is and have come to the conclusion that for those comfortably off, parsimony is a virtue. For those who have no money, it is not perceived as a virtue but a terrible thing which they try and escape whenever possible (I realise this is a generalisation of course).

Some people do have their priorities completely skewed. You can accuse people of stereotyping all you like, but the fact is that I've worked on council estates and you DO see extraordinarily expensive TVs and mobiles and so on in houses which are falling apart, and you get people living on benefits who feel they "have to" buy the new season's football kit (home and away) as soon as it comes out. Madness.

YABU - on all counts really Ebeneezer

" completely understand the temptation to burst the banks and say a great big fat 'yes' at Christmas."

I don't. NOt if you're not going to be able to sleep from worrying about the debt come 26th Dec. It's complete stupidity.

I think it's true that quite often those on lower incomes are very extravegant on occasion like birthdays and christmas.
I grew up in a very poor family but now have no problems with money though most of my family still do, so I can see very clearly that this does happen and also, I think, why.
If you are financially secure and you choose not to buy your dc a Nintendo Ds, you are doin it with no mitigation. Your choice to buy it or not based on your approach. You can feel secure in your choice as you have opted for what you feel is best. E ven if your dc moan and strop that they want it, you have the knowledge that you are doing what you believe to be th right thing.
If you know that you CANNOT get it because you cant afford it, you are then going to feel guilt. Your child wants something and the only thing stopping them having it is your lack of finances. That parent does not even get as far as analysing the rihgts and wrongs of sych extravegances - being able to choose based on morals is a luxury that is often only for those who are able to buy (or not buy) freely.
This parent is going to feel like a failure, it's likely they grew up in similar circumstances and hoped that no child of theirs would go without.
Now, with so much credit available it is possible to get these things even though on paper thay are well outside your budget.

So, I dont think these people deserve to be judged or sneered at. They are in a very sad and self-perpetuating cycle.
It's really not always about just choosing to spend within your budget.
Lots of people are spending in this way because they are desperate not to feel like a failure. I think that is very sad and not deserving of scorn.

Crikey. This thread's smug.

Is it?

Good point Jeremy

Bloody poor people

mine get tons of stuff because we can afford it

and probably would if we couldn't

I vividly remember as a child at school everyone listing what they had got and I made things up as we were skint

children want a pile of presents imo not a chuffin goat

Can I just say as a cyclist £600 is NOT a lot to pay for a bike, certainly not an adult bike anyway. £600 falls with in the category of reasonably decent bike (good frame, gears etc) with no frills (no hydralic discs, suspension etc). Certainly wouldnt pay that for a kids bike tho.

gawd the generalisations are flying today Sheesh.

We don't go overboard for the DS's either. We generally try to limit it to £50 a child for birthday and Christmas particularly as they all have birthdays either a week before Christams or 3 weeks after!

This yr DS's 2 and 3 are getting the playmobile aeroplane plus another little set to go with it and the playmobil farm for thier birthdays and scooters for Christmas with books and cheap bits from Santa. I do stockings for them, but they mainly have things like socks/toothbrushes etc.

DS1 however is getting an electric guitar this yr. He has a real musical talent and desparately wants one and we decided as it is educational and something he will use for a number of yrs he could have one. We also decided that with his Christmas money (he is 13 so will get money from people) and money we give him for his birthday he could buy the amp (and some ear plugs for us ) We have worked it out so that in the end we won't be spending loads and he will have contributed towards it. We are lucky with him as he doesn't expect fancy stuff, even though he was our only child for 9 yrs and we could afford to spoil him (though never to great extremes) He will be delighted with his guitar and won't expect much more than that tbh.

I know people who are spending £500+ on thier children for Christmas, when they have 3 or more!! How do they do it! We are by no means on the breadline, but we simply couldn't afford to that.