to think there is an inverse relationship between how little money people have and how much they are willing to spend on presents for their children

[Twiglett]

am truly gobsmacked at some of the things that people I know are buying for their children

truly and utterly, spoilt bastard, gobsmacked

why spend that much money? why?

About 4 miles from you. Just inside the M25

you lot

I don't think anyone has addressed how much wealth in Britain today is illusionary.

I was flicking through 25 Beautiful Homes, and it had a page of Christmas baubles. The cheapest was about GBP3.50 each and the most expensive were about GBP35 each. I think you would have to be clinically insane to fill your tree with Christmas decorations that cost nearly 40 quid a throw, but that's because I wouldn't dream of using the re-draw facility on my mortgage.

That's the middle-class equivalent of Wiis. Just because it's covered in tasteful feathers and sequins and comes from Selfridges and not made of plastic and bought from Argos doesn't mean it's not pushing exactly the same buttons as whatever poor people are buying to make themselves feel good.

IMHO, the consumer boom cuts across class. Poor people may be buying more because the Chinese manufacturing boom and the strong pound mean that in real terms, things are cheaper than they have ever been. Equally, a lot of middle class people have been overspending on frivolous things for the past ten years because they all think that they've made XXX,XXX pounds a year on their house.

Yes dragon

Ditto scented candles,lavendar eye masks,floral chintz door stops and the like.
Seductive (for a nanosecond) but no less useless than shite from Poundstretchers.

It is not about children being brought up on benefits ... I mentioned benefits because the RL person I was thinking about, who happens to be extremely posh actually so it's not about class either, seems to feel that she has to spend loads (that she doesn't have and will get into further debt for yet still she is doing it)

You want to know what I consider spoilt .. I consider children who are innundated with gifts and don't sparkle when given stuff to be spoilt ... for my family it would be impossible to spend over £50 per child on a present because it would be over our budget that allows us throughout the year to deem ourselves 'comfortably off' .. oh I could do it, I could stick it on my credit card or get a loan but I won't because I can't live like that .. with that fear

and if I'm honest I would say £600 on a child's bike is farkin' laughable

oh for goodness SAKE

Twig was not having a dig at people on benefits imo

she was pondering why people who seemed to afford it the least seemed to spend the most

so that could be a cash strapped double income couple OR someone on benefits

I had a poor background but still had a pile of presents under the tree, they were just cheap crap instead of expensive crap

you lot saying oh mine are having a stick and a mouldy nut need to have a look at yourselves and think IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU it is about your children

they WANT the tat imo, not the worthyness (is that a word?)

just read Twiglett's OP, and I agree, it is very frustrating. I have a friend who expressed jealously towards me beecause I was able to buy my dd a box of lego. She failed to mention they they have a wii, and a load of other technical gadgets that I don't even know the name of, let alone have.

I've been thinking about this overnight asn I think that what I dislike about this whole thread smacks unpleasantly of the Victorian notion of the deserving or undeserving poor. The 'deserving' ones in this case those that have the decency to act poor and only buy cheap gifts for their children, rather than have the affrontery to clamber out of their station in life and spend money on things that the middle classes don't approve of. Would we all object if the said pauper was spending money on clarinet lessons or riding?

And whilst I do have sympathy with the argument that it makes it hard for other parents to teach their kids to be anti-materialist, I still think that isn't the responsibility of the christmas splurgers. My counter to that would be (not that they have ever said anything like that I must admit) is that we can't afford it - not if you want us to run a car, not if you want to go to riding, not if you want to go out for meals, not if you want to go on holiday etc. So far they have been happy with that. We are a totally atheist family but have no trouble with explaining that some people beleive in a god - other people are different, that's life.

The only possible reason that anyone has the right to object is if this christmas splurge results in the DCs starving and doing without basics the rest of the year. And there is no evidence that this happens in most cases. That's why christmas clubs are so successful. That's why catalogues are so popular when you can pay things off at £1 a week.

For me it's not necessarily just the amount of money spent by some parents on Xmas presents that I find strange and unnecessary - it's buying presents that are totally inappropriate for the age of the child (inappropriate for a variety of reasons, including the amount of money spent). Buying Playstations, TVs, Wii, Ipods, mobile phones etc for very young children seems grotesque to me. I have a nearly 3 yr old and to be honest, he is happiest playing with sticks and leaves and mud in the garden. Why go against that and spend shit loads of cash buying ridiculous gadgets? It confuzzles me, it really does.

hmmm LAG - dh bought a Sega Dreamcast supposedly for ds1 when he was about 18 months old - I have a sneaking suspicion that it was for himself really

"Because you're worth it" will go down as the most successful advertising slogan in history. It's become a lifestyle mantra for everyone.

ooh, I hate those ads

also, columists, usually woman, who waffle on about having a facial for £2454 due to stress etc and how it was fab for their self esteem

go for a walk in the fresh air you tart

Ninedragons, I completely agree. That 'Because you're worth it' sentiment is hideous and the idea that people are worth what they own is at the root of so many people's misery.

There have been some pretty smug comments on this thread but more worrying are the 'more power to people who splash out/it's only one day/so what if it gets them into debt if it cheers them up' etc. It isn't only for one day! If people are getting into debt then that's gonna make them miserable for lots of days to come. We should be concerned that people are so vulnerable to an idea of Christmas as a spendfest.

Lol at sending them for a walk. (People who get those £100 real-gold-leaf facials must just have absolutely No Self Awareness)

and the Virgin one with people Having A Fab Time shopping/traveling/dining with the line saying something like "life is for living", ie put it on the plastic

It is true that debt makes people miserable and its sad that happens (the Man from the Prov has a lot to answer for) but nobody can possibly know if it was paid for by savings and scrimping (which frankly I admire becasue I am useless at that) or by accruing debt- and even with teh debt, some poeple seem to be able to manage that better than others (er not me, hence no credit cards either)- if you can mahnge to pay £20 aweek and you maintain it at that level it aint so bad. And to be hnest as long as kid is not neglected (in which case its social services business) then what does it matter? Its up to the adults to make their decisions. We trusta dults to make decisions based on far more important things than Chrstmas and then some peole sem to want to micro manage the details.

My aprents were always poor despite Dad working every hour under the sun (failed business before I was born, partner did a run with the money owed to HMC_ took Dad years to pay abck £10K). yet Chrsitmas was wonderful, i try but cant manage tor ecreate that magic. They covered it by not having a car, owning their own home having trips abroad. Surely their choice?

Mind you whilst posting that ireceived 2 e-mails from John Lewis and one from ELC- talk about mass advertising gone mad!

What classist bullshit this thread is. It is nobodies business what other people spend on their kids at xmas.

It's the instant gratification thing that gets to me. What is so terrifying about making your children wait for things? Wanting is a normal part of childhood, it helps you discover who you are, what your likes and dislikes are etc. In my experience, children want things and then after a little while they want something entirely different.

dd1 has been waiting for her Baby Chou Chou doll since September...