AIBU to think that the BBC and other news outlets are reporting that the lack of lorry drivers and care workers is caused by Covid alone and that they are deliberately ignoring Brexit?

[Aurorashields99]

And if you agree, why do you think this is the case? Surely Brexit is as much to blame for these issues so why are they not reporting this fairly?

I must have watched half a dozen news stories over the past few days in which reporters only mention Covid as being the cause of empty shelves in the supermarket and the shortage of care workers. If Brexit is referred to at all, it is only mentioned fleetingly.

Of course Covid has had a heavy impact on these sectors too but it's not the only factor is it? So why is Brexit being ignored?

I am not a journalist or a troll. I have been a member of Mumsnet since 2003.

And yes I know there is a Brexit topic elsewhere but (a) I am interested in people's votes and (b) not being able to discuss this in AIBU and confining this thread to the Brexit topic is the perfect example of the issue I am complaining about here.

And it is allowing Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to cover their tracks and not to have to face the consequences of their actions. Covid is providing the perfect cover for them both.

Why aren't reporters doing their job and reporting the facts fairly? Why is Brexit being swept under the rug? Is it because Johnson and Gove were former journalists themselves and know how to spin events in their favour?

Or is Brexit a dirty word now even though we are all living with consequences?

I'm not defending the BBC news as I really think they have become the mouth piece of government. But I've heard several reports on radio 4 where they mentioned brexit as a cause of the issues.

@nowwhat50

Was just about to post about IR35 changes being an impact as well. For a lot of driving's the resulting pay cut makes the job no longer worthwhile or competitive and have gone either to other countries or other industries.

IR35 has been brewing since Gordon Brown first introduced it over 20 years ago. He was told then that it was a disaster and would have "unforeseen" consequences such as labour shortages. He ploughed ahead with it rather than tackling the real underlying issues, but watered it down. HMRC spent 20 years trying to bully and cajole people into voluntarily applying IR35 often where it was completely irrelevant, and eventually got their way in making the "engager" (employer) liable, so loads of firms over the last couple of years have been lazily assuming all their workers are caught by IR35 rather than doing proper assessments/evaluations. Now it's all come back to bite them on the bum. I expect it's all one of the reasons why the Treasury Secretary Jesse Norman was sacked yesterday as he was claiming credit for imposing IR35 as if it was a good thing! IR35 should never even have got past the planning stage. Brown didn't roll it out fully 20 years ago because he knew it was a car crash policy. Now, it's one of the reasons for the shortage of lorry drivers, just like it was one of the reasons for a shortage of IT workers a couple of years ago, and like how it's caused carnage in the public sector, BBC, NHS, etc.

@RoseAndRose

Some shortages are international

Here's the current US advice

www.usda.gov/coronavirus/food-supply-chain

I think this thread is an example of confirmation bias.

That's an interesting point from you and Usedupusername about US shortages.

However I stand by my point about TV news, especially BBC TV news. It's not confirmation bias imho as I know what I saw. Multiple reports on lack of care home workers and specific food shortages stating the main causes with almost no mention of Brexit, where it was mentioned, it was almost an aside.

There does seem to be almost a "conspiracy" of silence when it comes to challenging the government line. And Keir Starmer apparently almost silent in the issue. Or is he not getting enough air time?

It was predictable that brexit would cause issues. Add into that covid (and in the case of haulage too it wasn’t helped by the Evergreen getting stuck and things are only just starting to get where they should be)

Even pre all this perfect storm haulage was stuffed. Working 65 hour weeks away from home and sleeping in your lorry simply isn’t an appealing career choice and the poor pay and conditions haven’t helped.

@TheNatureOfTheCatastrophe

I get almost all of my news from the BBC and am fully aware that the lorry driver shortage is caused by a combination of backlog of HGV tests due to Covid, exodus of EU lorry drivers due to Brexit (and also Covid to some extent), and long term reluctance of workers to do the job because they've been increasingly underpaid and treated badly for the last twenty years.

However, and I say this as a determined Remainer, the reason why the workforce were underpaid and made to work in grim conditions was probably because there was a large supply of Eastern European drivers prepared to put up with those conditions. It looks a lot as if Brexit is having exactly the effect that its voters wanted and forcing wages and conditions to be increased to a point to make the job attractive. Of course it's happening in a totally chaotic and unplanned way because of the combination of Covid and this sodding government.

The same applies to care workers, there's been a teetering shortage for years, and it's so tightly managed for staffing that the loss of one person, even PT, puts a big strain on those left. Which in turn burns out those left and there's little incentive when you can have less responsibility, less demands and more money in hospitality or retail - and at least we're told hospitality is 'crying out for staff'. Add to that the SI rules changing and covid making it's way around again, and the mandatory vaccination fall out, and it hasn't taken long to get to crisis point. I've seen signing on bonuses for care workers in my area, though most are still paying nmw, and advertising a 'free' uniform as a perk of the job. So although foreign workers probably kept wages low, and them leaving has caused a shortage of care workers, it's a far wider problem, one created by society because of the low value placed on care work. When people are unable to get care for their relatives, and are having to give up their jobs and lifestyles to care for their own, respect for, and within the industry may improve, alongside pay and conditions, and that hopefully would draw more people to the job.

The shortage of care workers is due to low pay for long hours, especially at unsocial times like evenings and weekends, and tough working conditions, because local authorities screw down care homes on fees, below in many cases an economic level for the care. It’s not up to self funders to cross subsidise local authorities.

The solution is not to import workers from other poorer countries - it’s to raise pay to a decent level of remuneration for the job, improve training and status; and that means more funding from central government!

@londonrach sorry you're wrong about shortages in the EU.

I live in the EU and our shelves are chock full.

& Spencer blames Brexit as it closes 11 French stores www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58582860 Weird how M&S clearly blame Brexit, isn't it?

Link

Marks & Spencer blames Brexit as it closes 11 French stores www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58582860

@Walkingwounded

YANBU.

I always used to trust the BBC as impartial. But thr lack of any links to Brexit in these things - European lorry drivers returning home, the Govt refusing to put lorry drivers on the shortage occupation visa list, empty shelves in part due to admin challenges - makes me feel that they are more and more a govt mouthpiece.

Even considered not paying the licence fee which for me is quite something.

The chair of the BBC is a prominent tory donor and brexit supporter.

@Neonplant

I'm not defending the BBC news as I really think they have become the mouth piece of government. But I've heard several reports on radio 4 where they mentioned brexit as a cause of the issues.

I am glad to be contradicted in this instance Neonplant . I gave up listening to Radio 4 a while back.

Noted about IR35! That's interesting to know Badbadbunny

As for the BBC, they're very weak generally. I watched a lot of their reports re the 3 million excluded from Covid support, not just the main news programmes, but also documentaries and radio interviews/reports. Their interviewers never seems to grasp the multitude of reasons (excuses) why there were 3 million self employed/freelancers excluded from support, and let off the Govt spokespersons far too easily.

They have few interviewers who actually listen to the answers and do relevant follow up questions. That lets the interviewee get away with not answering questions properly, i.e. giving a vague or irrelevant answer. The interviewer just goes onto the next question.

I don't think the BBC are biased one way or the other. I think they're just very weak generally and just let the interviewee get away with things. It's not party political either - they give an easy ride to opposition MPs too.

@Intercity225

The shortage of care workers is due to low pay for long hours, especially at unsocial times like evenings and weekends, and tough working conditions, because local authorities screw down care homes on fees, below in many cases an economic level for the care. It’s not up to self funders to cross subsidise local authorities.

The solution is not to import workers from other poorer countries - it’s to raise pay to a decent level of remuneration for the job, improve training and status; and that means more funding from central government!

It also means higher prices for the end customer. And more government funding means higher taxes too.

@Alltheprettyseahorses, the McColls shops across Prescot and just outside haven't had milk for a week because of a lack of drivers. You might have touched lucky, or been shopping in different places than me, but there are empty shelves across Merseyside. You can often get a version of what you want, but things aren't available that once were.

OP I've voted YABU because I haven't seen one report that doesn't mention Brexit. As said, we haven't got a solution to that, so it's right to focus on what we can fix. People are leaving care because of the mandatory vaccinations. If it isn't being put in place in the NHS, then we need to rethink things. It's the lack of planning for Brexit and the unwillingness to invest in training/education, so I wouldn't want Brexit highlighted, as such. The Tory's are running our country into the ground and no-one seems to care.

@NantesElephant

Are other European countries who have been dealing with COVID but not Brexit in the way we have experienced similar shortages? Honest question as I don’t know the answer.

There are widespread shortages of HGV drivers across Europe, but that's only part of the puzzle, I don't know if it's the same for production etc as we seem to have shortages across the length of the supply chain. It's almost as if paying really low wages to people working in really physically challenging jobs so people can buy carrots for 14p isn't sustainable.

Re the lorry driver problem. This episode of BBC podcast More or Less explains exactly where the shortfall figure of 100k HGV drivers comes from: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000z6cd

Key points: there has been a shortfall of drivers well before Brexit - 50k shortfall in 2015. By 2019 this was 60k
Covid plays a part - 25k fewer HGV driving tests taken last year due to Covid restrictions. I think now restrictions re driving tests have eased we should see some improvements.
Brexit plays a part - 19k fewer EU drivers living in UK.

@Intercity225

The shortage of care workers is due to low pay for long hours, especially at unsocial times like evenings and weekends, and tough working conditions, because local authorities screw down care homes on fees, below in many cases an economic level for the care. It’s not up to self funders to cross subsidise local authorities.

The solution is not to import workers from other poorer countries - it’s to raise pay to a decent level of remuneration for the job, improve training and status; and that means more funding from central government!

I agree with this, the fact we have relied on cheaper labour for years as people were willing to do it isn't aspirational, what would be aspirational would be to pay workers a fair wage for the work that they do.

@Sirzy

It was predictable that brexit would cause issues. Add into that covid (and in the case of haulage too it wasn’t helped by the Evergreen getting stuck and things are only just starting to get where they should be)

Even pre all this perfect storm haulage was stuffed. Working 65 hour weeks away from home and sleeping in your lorry simply isn’t an appealing career choice and the poor pay and conditions haven’t helped.

Thing is, though, that there was a time when that lifestyle WAS an appealing career choice. Go back a couple of decades, and truckers loved the lifestyle, because of the comeraderie, freedom, etc. The problem is that all that "fun" has been sucked out of the job, by tachographs, satnav, in cab webcams. Every truck driver is now "micro managed" by a desk jockey in a control room. Their "controller" wants them to do the impossible, but they can't when they're stuck in never ending roadworks on the M6! They can't park up for the night anywhere "nice" because the truck parks charge them (which comes out of their wage as their employer won't pay), hence why they park up on the side of the road with no facilities, no one to talk to etc. They can't leave their truck as they have to stay with it to stop it being stolen or the load taken. It's become a soul-less existence, a mere shadow of how it used to be which was what attracted people to the job in the first place.

IR35 is as much to blame.

The drivers who are Limited Companies have furloughed themselves. Furlough ends in a few weeks time, hopefully we will see an increase in the return of drivers.

@Enb76

This is stolen from FB so cannot vouch for the veracity but it is interesting

‘So, you are running out of food on the shelves, fuel in the garages, you can’t buy things you need, because the shops can’t get their supplies.
Why is that?

A shortage of goods? No
A shortage of money? No
A shortage of drivers to deliver the goods? Well, sort of.
There isn’t actually a shortage of drivers, what we have, is a shortage of people who can drive, that are willing to drive any more. You might wonder why that is. I can’t answer for all drivers, but I can give you the reason I no longer drive. Driving was something I always yearned to do as a young boy, and as soon as I could, I managed to get my driving licence, I even joined the army to get my HGV licence faster, I held my licence at the age of 17. It was all I ever wanted to do, drive trucks, I had that vision of being a knight of the roads, bringing the goods to everyone, providing a service everyone needed. What I didn’t take into account was the absolute abuse my profession would get over the years.
I have seen a massive decline in the respect this trade has, first, it was the erosion of truck parking and transport café’s, then it was the massive increase in restricting where I could stop, timed weight limits in just about every city and town, but not all the time, you can get there to do your delivery, but you can’t stay there, nobody wants an empty truck, nobody wants you there once they have what they did want.
Compare France to the UK. I can park in nearly every town or village, they have marked truck parking bays, and somewhere nearby, will be a small routier, where I can get a meal and a shower, the locals respect me, and have no problems with me or my truck being there for the night.
Go out onto the motorway services, and I can park for no cost, go into the service area, and get a shower for a minimal cost, and have freshly cooked food, I even get to jump the queues, because others know that my time is limited, and respect I am there because it is my job. Add to that, I even get a 20% discount of all I purchase. Compare that to the UK £25-£40 just to park overnight, dirty showers, and expensive, dried (under heat lamps) food that is overpriced, and I have no choice but to park there, because you don’t want me in your towns and cities.
Ask yourself how you would feel, if doing your job actually cost you money at the end of the day, just so you could rest.
But that isn’t the half of it. Not only have we been rejected from our towns and cities, but we have also suffered massive pay cuts, because of the influx of foreign drivers willing to work for a wage that is high where they come from, companies eagerly recruited from the eastern bloc, who can blame them, why pay good money when you can get cheap labour, and a never ending supply of it as well. Never mind that their own countries would suffer from a shortage themselves, that was never our problem, they could always get people from further afield if they needed drivers.
We were once seen as knights of the road, now we are seen as the lepers of society. Why would anyone want to go back to that?
If you are worried about not getting supplies on your supermarket shelves, ask your local council just how well they cater for trucks in your district.
I know Canterbury has the grand total of zero truck parking facilities, but does have a lot of restrictions, making it difficult for trucks to stop anywhere.
Do you want me to go back to driving trucks? Give me a good reason to do so. Give anyone a good reason to take it up as a profession.
Perhaps once you work out why you can’t, you will understand why your shelves are not as full as they could be.
I tried it for over 30 years, but will never go back, you just couldn't pay me enough.

That is indeed a fascinating post about lorry driver status and conditions. Also I am astonished that Canterbury of all places, so near to the Chunnel, does not have any truck parking facilities. Maybe they have confined them to the Ashford area but even so ... .

When people are unable to get care for their relatives, and are having to give up their jobs and lifestyles to care for their own, respect for, and within the industry may improve, alongside pay and conditions, and that hopefully would draw more people to the job.

No, IMO it’s the other way round. Afaik, most people are put into a care home, when the family carers are on the verge of breakdown. Having cared 24/7 for DD (and given up career and lifestyle), until I was driven into the ground, we were willing to send DD to a care home - and then, care workers who got paid for only working shifts, but got to go home and have a night’s sleep, days off, holidays; seemed to me to be living in unimaginable luxury! It doesn’t increase my respect, because I did it all, with no break just for carer’s allowance of £63 (iirc) a week, and I had no back up of cleaners, a maintenance department, a whole multidisciplinary team of on-site professionals like a clinical psychologist, etc.

As for pay and conditions, what have they got to do with us? The contract is between the CCG and the care home. We have no say in it; and it’s naive to think the CCG would pay more on our say so, given the situation in the NHS.

@Walkingwounded

YANBU.

I always used to trust the BBC as impartial. But thr lack of any links to Brexit in these things - European lorry drivers returning home, the Govt refusing to put lorry drivers on the shortage occupation visa list, empty shelves in part due to admin challenges - makes me feel that they are more and more a govt mouthpiece.

Even considered not paying the licence fee which for me is quite something.

The problem is, they are reliant on the government for a large part of their funding. Tories threaten to cut it, the powers that be at the BBC are increasingly right-leaning, which leads to the news becoming a government mouthpiece. It's not all - the longer news pieces and more in depth daytime news is still good journalism. But the headline news on the hour - it's whatever they've been told to say.

Not paying your license fee will just make it worse.

It also means higher prices for the end customer. And more government funding means higher taxes too.

You're already subsidising that in part by a proportion of care workers needing tax/universal credit, social housing and other support due to low income.

And a lot of people are very certain that social care needs reform, and it needs to offer better to the 'end customer' but also not willing to actually pay for it, through taxes or fees. There's also not much mention of seeing exactly where this money goes and regulating that.

It's almost as if paying really low wages to people working in really physically challenging jobs so people can buy carrots for 14p isn't sustainable.

Hear hear to this! And to the other posts about working conditions in care homes.

Where is Labour's voice?

@Aurorashields99

It's almost as if paying really low wages to people working in really physically challenging jobs so people can buy carrots for 14p isn't sustainable.

Hear hear to this! And to the other posts about working conditions in care homes.

Where is Labour's voice?

Pretty quiet, as they have been for the past few years. Unfortunately i don't think there's a credible opposition to what we have now at the moment, and things are going to continue to get worse. This kind of thing is the backbone of labours founding ethos, you'd think they'd be shouting about it.

The problem is, they are reliant on the government for a large part of their funding. Tories threaten to cut it, the powers that be at the BBC are increasingly right-leaning, which leads to the news becoming a government mouthpiece. It's not all - the longer news pieces and more in depth daytime news is still good journalism. But the headline news on the hour - it's whatever they've been told to say

I agree with this about the BBC. I guess it has always been the case to some degree but with something as divisive as Brexit you notice it more!