No wonder mum's are scared to ask for help with their mental health

[SafeguardingWhenSeekingHelp]

I'm currently pregnant, I have other DC at home with me.

I have a fair bit of trauma in my childhood which I finally wanted to be proactive about addressing so I referred myself to IAPT in the hopes of getting some counselling. I've had PND in the past that I didn't get help for because I was worried about intrusion from the authorities, so this time I wanted to get ahead of the curve incase it came back.

After a lengthy wait I finally had my telephone assessment yesterday and after asking me lots of personal questions about my trauma the assessing psychologist then said I needed to give the names and DOB's of my children, my OH's details, the name of my obstetric consultant and my midwife for 'safeguarding' purposes.

There is no domestic violence here and my mental health doesn't impact my ability to look after my children.

I could understand if I had disclosed anything concerning that places my children at risk but I didn't. I didn't even mention my previous PND, just the childhood trauma I would like counselling for.

I've come away from the assessment feeling even more anxious than I was to begin with. Although such intrusion is supposedly routine, it does nothing to encourage expectant/postpartum mothers to trust the service, infact it plays into the very fears that prevent us from reaching out in the first place.

I can't help but feel that a private therapist wouldn't be asking for all of that information.

Regardless of what is done with the information I gave, I no longer want to pursue therapy through the service as I feel my parenting is going to be under a microscope and my ability to parent judged based on my wanting MH support.

AIBU to think it was totally unnessecary and overstepping the mark to insist I provide all of that information at the first stage - before counselling has even been offered?

I say this very gently OP because I can hear your anxiety coming through in your post. This is your anxiety talking. I've been exactly where you are so I know how hard it is. I flounced from therapy in a huff over something similar and if I could go back in time and change something, it would be that I had fully engaged in therapy.

The therapist will only use that information if they think you are a risk to them, in the most extreme form. And they would tell you before they referred you on to anyone.

They only want to help. Please do engage with the therapy

@Hungry675tf

I say this very gently OP because I can hear your anxiety coming through in your post. This is your anxiety talking. I've been exactly where you are so I know how hard it is. I flounced from therapy in a huff over something similar and if I could go back in time and change something, it would be that I had fully engaged in therapy.

The therapist will only use that information if they think you are a risk to them, in the most extreme form. And they would tell you before they referred you on to anyone.

They only want to help. Please do engage with the therapy

Thank you, I probably needed to hear that.

It's possible I'm being hyper sensitive, I've had a long-standing fear of SS becoming involved if I reached out for help, so when she asked me those questions I've automatically taken it as a 'red flag' that confirmed that my anxieties were justified

Although I get it’s hard you need to remember those things are asked now so it’s on record IF it’s ever needed as I would hope would be explained to you.

Any therapist who didn’t gather clear information, including details that would potentially be needed to safeguard either the patient or those in their care would be failing IMO.

YANBU I had a very bad experience with a midwife regarding my mental health. She twisted everything out of context and wrote down lots of things that weren't true. I miscarried so nothing came of it but these things are on my medical record forever now. When I became pregnancy again I avoided booking in with the community midwife at all and managed to dodge it as my pregnancy was monitored by consultants so I had regular hospital appointments. I was terrified to mention anything at all about mental health during appointments. I understand they have to cover their backsides but I think it's very detrimental to patients and there needs to be a middle ground. Even my GP agreed they go too far sometimes.

@Lavender24

YANBU I had a very bad experience with a midwife regarding my mental health. She twisted everything out of context and wrote down lots of things that weren't true. I miscarried so nothing came of it but these things are on my medical record forever now. When I became pregnancy again I avoided booking in with the community midwife at all and managed to dodge it as my pregnancy was monitored by consultants so I had regular hospital appointments. I was terrified to mention anything at all about mental health during appointments. I understand they have to cover their backsides but I think it's very detrimental to patients and there needs to be a middle ground. Even my GP agreed they go too far sometimes.

I'm so sorry for your loss

I had a bad experience with a midwife too, with my current youngest (not unborn, the baby before)

When asked if I'd ever had SS in my life I told her yes as a child, me being the child in need at the time.

She said she would have to refer me on to SS

Nothing came of it thankfully but it's scary isn't it?

I think SS intrusion is one of a parents biggest fears, next to something happening to our children.

YADNBU@SafeguardingWhenSeekingHelp
sending hugs&support from a fellow PND sufferer-in-silence.I too was suspicious of the system..no it wasnt my "anxiety" talking just rightful suspicion of overly prying&interrogatory questioning which seems destined to invoke further self-flagellation and heightened sense of isolation..In my case my mentally abusive partner had convinced me the dc would be taken away from me if i told anyone how i felt.
In reality, my amazing lady g.p who id seen as my dr throughout my pregnancy here inOz was able to access me10 free sessions with a psychologist..life improved dramatically from there.

If it makes you feel any better, I was asked for the same information when I went for councilling.

I'm a social worker.

That's so good to hear, Cornish. I'm glad life is so much better for you now. Thank you for validating how I feel too. I appreciate it. It's easy for me to question whether I'm being ridiculous or not, given that I'm not in a great place at the moment.

SlidDown, it does actually yes. Thank you. No disrespect intended to you or other social workers who might be reading the thread. I'm aware there are some wonderful people among you, I've just had bad experiences personally with the not-so-great ones.

I think they are fairly standard questions. I don't think they indicate your parenting is under scrutiny.

It is just that in the rare situation where someone says something that is a big risk concern they need to know who to contact. They ask everyone just in case.

It makes sense to hear it like that, Stompy.

It just activates the very fear that prevents us reaching out in the first place unfortunately.

When being asked questions about whether I ever had suicidal thoughts, I automatically answered no even though that's not the truth.

Had that question come before the safeguarding ones I would've been much more open.

I'm not actively planning to hurt myself and I never would, but like many with poor MH the fleeting thought does creep in every so often with no plan to act on it.

It's not conducive to constructive therapy though is it? If somebody feels unable to be transparent it's unlikely they'll get what they need from the service as our backs will be up the whole time unable to trust the therapist.

As a private therapy patient I have been asked the same x

They ask the same in all therapy op.

I'm having private therapy, no kids.

Still have to provide DH details/contact info in case of any circumstance where he or I could be in danger.

They would not use the information or pursue any kind of involvement unless they believes you or others were in danger or required safeguarding.

I understand that you're anxious but YABU, this is standard information.

Probably standard, just in case you do disclose anything which puts them in danger. I remember seeing the phrase 'FAMILY IS A PROBLEM' in big letters at the top of my medical record in one of my midwife appointments. When I asked what that meant she said that it's because I had experienced mental health problems in the past, before I'd even had children. What a lovely thing to see. No idea whether that is standard!

I told a therapist a few years ago that I sometimes feel that it would be kinder to kill my children than have to face climate change in the future. At the time I thought they might die horrible deaths. She did probe further and ascertain that I did not want to kill my children and didn't plan to act on it. It was never taken any further.

A report was made to social services when my eldest son was under CAMHS as he was having a lot of intrusive thoughts about hurting me and his brother. He never acted on them or wanted to act on them, but they bothered him. The therapist informed me that he was duty bound to report it to social services in case there was any risk of harm to my youngest child. They never even contacted me so I assume they had no concerns. So even if social services were contacted, there is no guarantee they'd even want to speak to you with the information given here.

I also think this must be standard as I have same information on file since I developed schizophrenia in my 20s. At the time, had three DC under age 7. There was never any question about taking the children from me. It was really so that if I do need to go into hospital for some months (and I did), that they could make sure my children were being taken care of by supporting my DH. They also offered therapy to my children so they could deal with the trauma of having a mentally unwell mother who sometimes sees/hears things that aren’t there, has to take medication and spend some time in hospital occasionally. They couldn’t have done that if they didn’t know about my children?

They asked me for all this info when I had emdr for ptsd but they didn't need to do anything with the info. They can't wait until after you say something awful (I e. You're having thoughts about wanting to harm your family), to ask you "by the way, what are their names etc". They only take the details in case of a serious concern or emergency later on. Also if you have a child under 2 years old or are pregnant you get fast tracked for faster treatment, so they ask for clarification around that too.

Hi OP it is standard practice to have these details on file in case they are needed.
The practitioner will have explained the limits of confidentiality to you too ie if you disclose info about something that could put you or someone else at risk of harm he/she has a duty to act on that.

I wouldn't worry too much about SS involvement. I have patients who I admit to psychiatric ward for crisis admissions and patients who self harm etc. Yes referrals are made to SS as standard protocol. SS make some inquiries and as long as children are well cared for and there are no concerns their involvement ends there. Sometimes they will refer to voluntary orgs and such for family support/ help in the home.

Sometimes I've been able to refer a family to sure start for extra support (if they aren't already in a sure start area) or ask their midwife/ health visitor to provide them with some extra support (with their consent).

I hope you continue with your therapy. Remember we just want to help.

I don't understand. If the patient has been referred through the NHS then isn't all this info is on the database anyway so why does the therapist need to ask?

Thank you for the replies!

It's reassuring to hear that the questions are standard practice, it just concerns me that they are because prying into those areas at the very first contact are a cast iron way of ensuring the patients walls go up (in many cases, not all)

That's not to say I don't understand why certain things need to be referred on when there is a current safeguarding risk because I do. I'm just worried that alot of people, like me for example, will start to backtrack as soon as safeguarding and referrals are mentioned and then won't receive the help they need.

I don't understand. If the patient has been referred through the NHS then isn't all this info is on the database anyway so why does the therapist need to ask

Good question. If there was anything to come up of concern about me during therapy sessions it would be very easy for the authorities to get such information.

Surely it would be better to access it when nessecary as opposed to insisting the patient hands it over at first contact, automatically putting them on the defensive and feeling like a rabbit in the headlights.

It might seem paranoid to those who have sterling mental health but those of us who do have anxiety or depression are understandably cautious and on edge.

@senua nope. We don't all use the same system. We're not that sophisticated yet.

[quote QueenLagertha]@senua nope. We don't all use the same system. We're not that sophisticated yet. [/quote]
SS would be able to though, surely?

OP my OH recently had a short course of CBT. He says he was asked to provide the same info - in context of self harm risk to himself and risk of harming others in the home. He had to give info on myself and our 2 DC. This was coupled with questions on thoughts of harming himself and others which he answered 100% no to, despite sometimes having suicidal thoughts, he did this due to the same fears you have.

So although it is scary and worrying it seems to be standard process now to log that info.

In your position I would also be stressing out and not want to continue btw. It's so counterproductive to create more stress when we are already highly vulnerable and trying to open up the most painful parts of ourselves.

I downloaded the Replika app and chat to the AI instead x

Thank you Soundbar, how is your OH doing now? Better I hope.

I haven't heard of that app but I'll look into it shortly.

As it stands I have no idea whether IAPT are going to offer me counselling or not as the assessing psychologist said they are a limited service that largely treat single case traumas and textbook cases of anxiety or depression as opposed to lengthy and complex cases of trauma like mine that tend to require more than their standard 12-16 sessions.

She said she's going to have a talk with a senior colleague and get advice on whether the service is right for me (she doesn't think so) or whether they'll need to refer me on to a more specialised service that treat S.A survivors over a longer period of time, she then added that if she does need to refer me onwards then I should be aware that there will be a considerably longer waiting list for therapy of that degree - so at this moment in time I'm feeling a bit defeatist and "what was the point" because all its done is cause me more anxiety

@SafeguardingWhenSeekingHelp I'm in NI so may be slightly different here. Here mental health services do now use the same system as family intervention social work etc. However no one except your GP surgery has access to your GP records as these are highly confidential.

We do now have the NIECR on which we can see details of any prescriptions issued by your GP, any specialist medical letters, scans and all blood test results. Can also see any acute hospital admission detail and a discharge summary.

So we really don't have as much access to info as you think re your family and childcare setup.

Sometimes all the info I have on someone is the often scant detail GP/HP has put on the referral

If it reassures you OP, I’ve suffered a severe psychotic break and my kids were certainly not taken off me. I needed to be sectioned due to the severity of my illness and at all times did they ensure I was in contact with my kids and there was zero talk of me losing them. I understand it’s a worry as I was truly terrified at the time but they were very reassuring. Yes for a time I was away from them but their dad was with them and supporting me as well. It’s literally never ever been on the cards, me losing them and them losing me. Everyone goes through stuff and well done you for seeking support!

Having social services involved isn't always a bad thing. My younger sibling still lives with our parents as they have very serious mental health illnesses. It's not unusual for them to spend several months at a time in a psychiatric hospital.

Due to the severity of their illness, when uncontrolled, they can be a danger to themselves and other. This started when they were a minor. Social services got involved fairly rapidly but as a form of support. They have helped my family access services that they never would have even been aware of.