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AIBU?

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Property might be unmortgageable - what happens now?

242 replies

Welcometomyhouse · 13/09/2021 22:21

Evening.. I was going to post this in the property section but thought there would be more traffic here. Just wondering if anyone has been through a similar situation and what was the outcome?

I’m a first time buyer purchasing a first floor flat on my own. The lady who is selling the property inherited it from her mother who lived there for 20 years. There is a mix of houses and flats on the street, however only my downstairs neighbour and I are leasehold, whilst all the other properties (including the flats) are freehold. When I went to view the property I asked the EA if there were any services charges and they explained that the management/maintenance company no longer existed. In the 20 years that the woman lived there she never had to pay any service charge nor did anyone request any payment from her. The daughter has tried to contact the company multiples times but has not been able to get in touch with anyone, so she believes that it has dissolved. I believe this to be true as all the communal areas are overflowing with weeds etc and it is clear that no one has maintained it for some time now. The gardens are kept tidy, grass cut etc but that’s because the neighbours do it themselves.

All searches have come back and I’ve had my report but my solicitor is still awaiting a response from the other side in regards to this issue. The vendors solicitor didn’t send sufficient documentation in regards to this other than “the sellers mother hasn’t paid any service charges for 20 years and we believe the company has now dissolved”. They’ve told us that they will have an indemnity policy put in the contract to protect me incase someone tries to come after me in the future and demand payment. My solicitor isn’t happy with this and has said she doesn’t think the mortgage lender will be either. I don’t understand all this legal talk but I went into her office today and she gave me a few examples which helped me understand the severity of it.

1.	The management company own the outside of the property and are suppose to insure it. Because the company no longer exists the building is currently uninsured and if both flats went up in flames/flooded etc we’d be screwed. 

2.	The management company are responsible for dealing with any repairs etc. We are suppose to pay a monthly service charge to them and in return they deal with any repairs. Because they no longer exist there is no agreement in place which explains who is responsible for what and who pays for what. I’m on the first floor and if a slate fell off my roof and there was water gushing through my ceiling, technically both my neighbour and I would be responsible for paying for the repairs but they could just tell me to piss off and there’s nothing that I could do about it. If the management company was still active it would be their responsibility to enforce that they pay half the bill. The same could apply if they came to me with an issue, I could just tell them to get lost. 

3.	Similar to the above issue. If my downstairs neighbour was playing loud music until 1am, the only thing I could do is go down there and ask them to stop. Again, If the management company existed it would be their responsibility to enforce this. 

4.	If nobody has paid any services charges for over 20 years, then there might not have been any repairs done on the building in quite some time.

Whilst waiting for the other side to come back, my solicitor suggested that I knock the neighbours door to see if I could find out any more information but the lady downstairs wasn’t in today. I’ve left a note with my phone number on asking her to give me a ring to have a quick chat. My solicitor is doing everything that she can but has been honest with me and said that the property might be unmortgageable unless the vendors solicitor can provide sufficient documentation, however I’m not confident that she’ll be able to if the company no longer exists… it will then be up to the lender to make the final decision. It is out of our control now.

Apologies for the very long winded post. My anxiety is through the roof at the minute and it’s awful being told this after 9 weeks of waiting around. Surely things like this happen all the time and there must be a way around it? Sad

OP posts:
ChargingBuck · 16/09/2021 15:28

So relieved to read your last update OP, & well done.

You are now in a better position, as you can save the money you were paying monthly on the car loan. You'll soon replace the cash used to pay off the loan, & in X months will be seeing that sum added to your nest egg every month.

You've gained in experience & knowledge through this disappointing episode, & one day will look back & be so happy you waited for the optimum property.

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2021 15:50

@Welcometomyhouse

After some digging I found out that all the flats and even some houses on the street are leasehold. I'm not sure why I was told that they were freehold. One flat even sold last year so I wonder how they got around the issue... just really strange.

Just to let everyone know I've decided to withdraw. I've notified my solicitor and the EA (and given reasons why, the EA didn't realise how serious it was apparently). Feeling really down today but I'm sure in the long run, I'll see that I've done the right thing Sad

I'm relieved for you.

I know there were properties on our old estate that frequently came up for sale and the estate agent did all they could to avoid mentioning the leasehold.

When we were moving we looked at one and asked how much the service charges were on the property. The estate agent said they didn't know and would get back to us.

Living on the estate we were well aware that some properties had much better leasehold agreements than some of the others - and there were some owners who were having a nightmare selling as a result.

The estate agent never did get back to us. We didn't chase it up because it was obvious there was something amiss with it all and the EA had clocked we were asking the right questions and wouldn't have the wool pulled over our eyes.

We later found out it was being sold due to divorce and the partner still living there was playing silly buggers about it. I don't think they sold it in the end.

Its sad for you but use it as a life lesson. Estate Agents are sharks who can't be trusted. Ask the right questions and use this solicitor again because theyve just saved you a world of pain. They've earnt their money.

Another property will come along in time and it will be better than this and you will be really happy living there.

I know it sucks but you will find the right one.

LaetitiaASD · 16/09/2021 15:56

@Welcometomyhouse

After some digging I found out that all the flats and even some houses on the street are leasehold. I'm not sure why I was told that they were freehold. One flat even sold last year so I wonder how they got around the issue... just really strange.

Just to let everyone know I've decided to withdraw. I've notified my solicitor and the EA (and given reasons why, the EA didn't realise how serious it was apparently). Feeling really down today but I'm sure in the long run, I'll see that I've done the right thing Sad

You do realize property can be both? Almost all flats are leasehold, even if they come with a share of the freehold.

I suspect that there is a real angle her to get the property cheap, resolve legal issues and make a profit (or a paper profit). That said if you're a first time buyer without good knowledge, spare cash, time, patience, interest etc then you are better off walking away and finding a hassle free flat to buy.

Tempted to ask you to pm me the postcode.

meadowbleu · 16/09/2021 16:52

It's really not as simple as just walking away when I've spent all this time and money so far. This is what my solicitor is looking into as apparently there might be ways around it

I'm relieved you've withdrawn @Welcometomyhouse

I cautioned you earlier in the thread, not sure if you read that or if you did, whether you took in what I said.

I'm sure all of us understand how you feel. It's hard enough to find a place you think you could love, let alone be able to afford it, let alone pay out dead money. We all get that and we all sympathise, an awful lot of us have had similar experience. It really is a classic case of Buyer Beware.

You were falling for the sunken costs fallacy. Not only that, but this is actually money well spent on very important life lessons learned. Always, always remember who people are working for. The Estate Agent, not working for you. The Estate Agent's mortgage adviser, not working for you.

Trust nothing that people tell you, even in good faith, always get informed and qualified advice. We looked at a property once and enquired about vacant land opposite 'oh that'll never be built on' said the guy showing us round. Hmm yes and what guarantee can you give us? The short answer is absolutely none. I was also gutted when we had to pull out of a house purchase because not only had works carried out not been signed off by building control but we found there were works that wouldn't meet building control requirements. Never buy someone else's problem, because that problem simply becomes your problem. I say that, obviously there may be exceptions if you were in the trade or if the property was many thousands below fair market value when it was put right.

You've 'wasted' weeks and a thousand, but you could very well have saved yourself years and tens of thousands, not least, as I said before, because clearly no maintenance has been carried out for decades.
The stress you feel now is absolutely nothing compared to what it could be.

There'll be something else and now you're not paying interest on your car loan, you'll save that much more. Don't lose heart Flowers

chesirecat99 · 16/09/2021 16:56

@Welcometomyhouse

After some digging I found out that all the flats and even some houses on the street are leasehold. I'm not sure why I was told that they were freehold. One flat even sold last year so I wonder how they got around the issue... just really strange.

Just to let everyone know I've decided to withdraw. I've notified my solicitor and the EA (and given reasons why, the EA didn't realise how serious it was apparently). Feeling really down today but I'm sure in the long run, I'll see that I've done the right thing Sad

Have you looked up who the freeholder of the other flats is with the land registry and if they originally had the same freeholder as "your flat" and the freehold was sold on? It might be worth some more digging. It could be that the freehold of your flat was sold too but it wasn't registered with the land registry.

It only costs a few pounds to download the documents.

LakieLady · 16/09/2021 17:10

You said that the other properties were all freehold? I would guess the set up is that the other flats own a share of the freehold of the building and have their own management company/sink fund

A friend has a converted flat that has this sort of arrangement. The house has been converted into 3 flats, the owners of the basement and g/f flats both have a 50% share of the freehold and the top floor flat is leasehold.

Unfortunately, the owner of the basement flat is a bit awkward and is currently refusing to agree to have the outside of the building painted, presumably because she can't afford to pay 1/3 of the cost. My friend (g/f flat) and the leaseholder of the top flat are perfectly happy to pay their 1/3 shares, but baulk at paying 50% each.

LakieLady · 16/09/2021 18:16

You've done the right thing, OP. Far better to be £1k down than 100's of thousands.

These things can be horrendously expensive and time consuming to resolve. You'll build up your savings in no time, especially now you've paid off the car loan and will be able to save more each month.

And even though you loved the flat, you'd soon have come to hate it if it was costing you a fortune and/or the legal issues became impossible to resolve and you were still stuck there long after you wanted to move on.

WhatAWasteOfOranges · 16/09/2021 19:09

Sounds shit and I hope something else comes up for you soon.
No use to you now but in future always secure a conveyancer on a “no buy/sale no fee” fixed price. 1k sounds incredibly steep on a non complete 80k flat…

ellyeth · 16/09/2021 19:38

It all sounds very complicated. I can't understand why the freeholder (who you say was the, now defunct, management company) has not claimed ground rent or put in place some sort of alternative maintenance arrangement/service charge. What is the remaining term of the lease? I think, if it's under 70, or maybe 80, years, it is advised that the lease be extended and I suspect mortgage providers would want the situation clarified.

It sounds like your solicitor is confused too and has some misgivings.
It might be better to look for something else.

Spyro1234 · 16/09/2021 20:08

I'd run a mile from the this.

Fudgemonkeys · 16/09/2021 21:47

Don't buy find yourself another place. Too many problems

Dontjudgeme101 · 16/09/2021 22:20

I am so glad that you decided not to buy the property, but also l am sad for you too. A better property for you will come on the market. 💐💐💐

Goldi321 · 16/09/2021 23:10

You need to walk away and stop putting any more money towards this. This will be a nightmare to sell and future you will be cursing how naive you are now.
I know it’s tough when you feel emotionally invested, but this is not the flat for you.

pilates · 17/09/2021 07:12

The op has already mentioned she has withdrawn from the transaction

dementor72 · 18/09/2021 12:39

RUN don't walk ...

me109f · 23/09/2021 23:23

If there are legal issues with it you really do not want to get involved. You may not be able to sell it yourself when the time comes.
The mortgage lender should inform you as to why they will not give you a loan on it. A home that is below a certain floor size cannot be mortgaged, for instance. Insufficient firewall protection another.

All the above posts are worth consideration. The leasehold question is not really an issue. If you are an owner you are normally legally entitled to buy the lease for a few hundred, or thousand pounds.

friendlycat · 24/09/2021 00:31

How are you OP?
This doesn’t sound good? What’s the update?

I can only echo what others are saying in that this really does sound a nightmare fraught with potential problems.

I agree that your first property should be something exciting to look forward to. Not this. It’s an utter disgrace that Estate Agents in the first instance are so misleading as they obviously knew there were problems by even mentioning an indemnity at your first viewing.

I hope that you have had some more feedback which has helped you to make decisions.

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