To not put the house back to what it was?

[QuantumDog2]

I've rented the house I live in currently for nearly 9 years. When I moved in it was a new build and we were the first to live here, so obviously a buy to let. The walls were all trade paint magnolia and the carpets were cheap, exactly the way new builds are presented as standard.
Over the years I've decorated it and made some improvements like extending the patio and I spend £1400 on new flooring for the lounge because the carpet was worn out by that stage and looked grotty.
Now I'm leaving as I've bought somewhere with my partner, but contractually apparently I have to return the property the way I found it. I'm 6 months pregnant now and don't fancy donning my overalls and climbing ladders to paint. What would you do? I feel like after 9 years here and the time and money I've spent on the place (although my choice totally) I shouldn't really be penalised, but I expect I will lose my deposit?

Colours you chose, @Blossomtoes, that match your furniture and bedding etc. Neutral colours will work with any tenant's furniture and won't offend anyone's taste eg teenage boys aren't going to want a Barbie pink bedroom nor would I want my home office that colour.

Oh. I forgot the mention that she did say that the house is now under application from a prospective tenant. I'm not sure how relevant that is, but forgot to add it to my previous update.

@QuantumDog2

Oh. I forgot the mention that she did say that the house is now under application from a prospective tenant. I'm not sure how relevant that is, but forgot to add it to my previous update.

That’s kind of demolished the case for repainting then. I bet that prospective tenant would be pretty disappointed to discover the property they offered on had turned magnolia.

I don't know, I can imagine the agent just saying that the new tenant has requested everything back to magnolia. They seem to be okay with fibbing about little things like that.

When I originally asked the agent to ask the landlord to replace the hallway carpet because it was wearing out, they came back saying no. But when I approached the LL directly 6 months later, it was the first she'd heard of it. Or so she said.
She still declined to recarpet though.

I don't know, I can imagine the agent just saying that the new tenant has requested everything back to magnolia.

The landlord will have to provide receipts for the work done or quotes, if you raise a dispute with the deposit service. Insist on receipts if the tenant has already moved in to prove that the work has been done. They aren't going to redecorate an entire house after the tenant moves in.

Your house was an unpainted house and the LL is a complete CF.

...
That a house was IMO an unpainted house when the OP moved is indicative of the absolute cheapest, nastiest job a LL could do and I have never heard of it.

...

I don't know why a mist coat was also described as being magnolia colour. It's usually white and it functions as a base coat/primer.

We don't know how hard the OP was scrubbing or whether she was using a Brillo pad or something similar for the walls to be returned to bare plaster. We don't know what she was trying to scrub off the walls - red crayon marks? A little smudge of some sort?

@mathanxiety

Your house was an unpainted house and the LL is a complete CF.

...
That a house was IMO an unpainted house when the OP moved is indicative of the absolute cheapest, nastiest job a LL could do and I have never heard of it.

...

I don't know why a mist coat was also described as being magnolia colour. It's usually white and it functions as a base coat/primer.

We don't know how hard the OP was scrubbing or whether she was using a Brillo pad or something similar for the walls to be returned to bare plaster. We don't know what she was trying to scrub off the walls - red crayon marks? A little smudge of some sort?

I've already said. Cleaning small marks off the wall with a soft damp cloth. 🙄

missed that.

Well hope fully the tenant liked all the colours because otherwise theyre going to get a shock

@whynotwhatknot

Well hope fully the tenant liked all the colours because otherwise theyre going to get a shock

Hardly. They’ve seen photos and viewed the house. They know exactly what colours it is.

I Meant if it was changed back

Sorry. I misunderstood you.

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To not put the house back to what it was?638
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16/09/2021 18:56chesirecat99

"As far as I was aware - and property law isn't my area - a landlord or representative can only access a property with the tenants permission OR in the event of an emergency."

That's correct, @BrightYellowDaffodil. If the tenant refuses access, the landlord or their agent cannot enter the property, except in an emergency. They would have to get a court order to enter the property without the tenant's permission.

If there is nothing in the contract about allowing viewings, that would be the end of it. If there is a clause about viewings, see my previous post:

"If, however, the landlord has made a valid, lawful, request in accordance with the terms of the tenancy agreement, the tenant may be in breach if it does not allow access. The landlord may have potential remedies for damages or for an injunction/specific performance requiring the tenant to allow access. The landlord might also have grounds to serve a Housing Act 1988 section 8 notice (if you are dealing with an assured shorthold tenancy (AST)) but this won't necessarily assist in securing early access for viewings."
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16/09/2021 19:07ellyeth

It sounds like the changes you have made are actually an improvement on what was there before. However, as the property was meant to be left in the same state as before I suppose there might be a chance the landlord could demand money to restore it to how it was previously.

I don't know whether, in law, they could demand more money or withhold your deposit. Do you think the owner would be likely to issue proceedings to claim money for re-painting, etc?

I would have thought the stipulation re leaving it as it is referred more to the condition of the property - cleanliness, fixtures intact, etc. - rather than making no changes whatsoever, especially after 9 years. If your landlord is insisting you must paint everywhere cream I think it's petty and mean.
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16/09/2021 19:17muddypawswars

I think it is totally unreasonable to expect that a troop of agents and prospective new tenants should be able to pass through the property in the post pandemic world. Isn't OP pregnant? Pregnant women are at greater risk from coronavirus.
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16/09/2021 20:59Scottsy100

I would imagine if you’ve made “improvements” then the landlord would be grateful, I’d hate to imagine what a property would look like with absolutely nothing done to it for 9 years, surely you’ve done them a favour and I wouldn’t worry too much but then that’s just my opinion
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16/09/2021 21:42MyrtlethePurpleTurtle

Have I literally just read 110+ posts from an OP saying she’s not repainting colours walls back to magnolia (coupled with a bit of ‘it’s not fair)?
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16/09/2021 22:41SmokyLittleBeefBath

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle

Have I literally just read 110+ posts from an OP saying she’s not repainting colours walls back to magnolia (coupled with a bit of ‘it’s not fair) Yes.
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16/09/2021 23:21LeSquigh

YABU. I rent and it’s frustrating that I can’t put my mark on a house but when I look to move the houses that are “decorated” anything other than the standard white or magnolia don’t get a look in from me because they are usually dreadful. Your taste won’t be the taste of most and it will likely affect the rental value.

You are mad to have spent so much on a rental anyway!
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17/09/2021 07:57IM0GEN

LeSquigh

YABU. I rent and it’s frustrating that I can’t put my mark on a house but when I look to move the houses that are “decorated” anything other than the standard white or magnolia don’t get a look in from me because they are usually dreadful. Your taste won’t be the taste of most and it will likely affect the rental value.

You are mad to have spent so much on a rental anyway!

@LeSquigh - many landlords WILL let you put your mark on a house by painting the walls. They just want you to change it back to their Choice of neutral before you leave !

It amazes me that relatively young, able bodied adults who are not on the breadline are willing to live with a wall colour that they hate and complain about it every day for 10 years rather than spend £50 and a weekend painting it . And then the same same again 10 years later before they move out.

Many owner occupiers do exactly the same TBH. Change it to suit their own tastes then freshen it up before they put it on the market or make it more neutral to appeal to buyers.

Because in general, neutral is what sells - to tenants as well as owners.

In particular , many people have extremely strong views about what colours are suitable for children’s bedrooms and will not eg rent a house with two pink bedrooms if they have a son and a daughter. So landlords paint all bedrooms neutral.

That’s why the Op is very foolish to make a stand on the pink and green bedrooms. If she had changed them back to neutral, the landlord might have been happy with the blue hall and the other Egyptian Cotton rooms.

But if she’s willing to throw away £1000 for the sake of painting 2 kids bedrooms then that’s her choice. She’s obviously relatively well off and doesn't care about that kind of money.

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17/09/2021 08:16JuneOsborne

I've been reading and lurking, but not yet posted.

In the years that I rented houses, I always did them up.

I remember one, where the LL was pretty decent, fixing things and doing the odd job. We always asked permission for things that we wanted to change but weren't broken as such. I recarpeted the whole downstairs, painted it, kept it spotlessly clean.

I remember the move out day. The LL came with a clipboard and said right, let's see how much we can knock off your deposit. He'd never behaved like this before.

He inspected every room. Left with a blank piece of paper and had to hand me the cheque for the full deposit. It clearly stung him. But, all he could say was how beautiful it was, better than when he bought it.

The next tenant had huge issues with damp and mould in the house. (We knew because we'd made good friends with the neighbours who told us about her complaints). We ran into the LL a couple of years later and he said he'd never had such good tenants and he was sorry about the deposit thing. I just chuckled and said no worries. I've never had a deposit kept back, because I've never left a place in a worse condition than I moved into.

And as a LL I think that has to be worth something, rules and regulations aside. It sounds like youre in a similar position, and I imagine all will be well, it's just this shitty bit in-between that's a killer.

Hang tight.
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17/09/2021 08:37butterpuffed

He inspected every room. Left with a blank piece of paper and had to hand me the cheque for the full deposit. It clearly stung him

Why ? The deposit would have been in a tenancy deposit scheme, it's not as if he'd had the money and spent it !

OP, I've moved in and out of rental properties for years, they've always been freshly painted when I've moved to a new one . By the landlord, I hasten to add, as they always make a point of telling you !
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17/09/2021 08:56JuneOsborne

It wasn't! It was well before the deposit scheme!
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17/09/2021 09:02butterpuffed

Oh ! Glad you got it all back then !
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17/09/2021 09:12JuneOsborne

Me too @butterpuffed, me too!
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17/09/2021 09:36Pinkfluff76

OP I have not read all the comments but you are definitely not a Cf. Don’t think that. The landlord should be grateful for what you’ve done and he should be repainting after you’ve left especially as it sounds like he hasn’t had to. Besides your paint sounds great. He’s being a CF! Good luck 🤞🏻
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17/09/2021 11:00IncessantNameChanger

My tennants moved in before the deposit scheme. The deposit is still in their though. I dont think it's legal hold any deposits now? You can serve a section 21 otherwise
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17/09/2021 18:17whynotwhatknot

Any update op what did the director say?
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QuantumDog2

whynotwhatknot

Any update op what did the director say?

Hi. Unfortunately not, I missed her call because I was late getting in to my appointment with an obstetrician today. I emailed her to apologise and we've rescheduled for tomorrow now. Will update after I've spoken to her

Did you have your meeting yet? Was it a positive outcome?

Jeez, I don't know what happened there!

Any outcome yet OP?

@QuantumDog2 OP, can the landlord claim loss of income etc? What reason can they possibly give for keeping your deposit. They’ve done no maintenance over 9 years and somehow they expect you to repaint at your own cost. You’ve been a model tenant. They should be happy with all that you’ve done and just repaint what they need to do at their own cost because clearly they’ve saved a lot as you made all the improvements out of your own pocket,

If I were you, I’d also take a screenshot of the rental listing as well and show that the landlord is in fact benefiting from the improvements that you’ve made. Also, not to mention the fact that rental charge is, as you’ve mentioned, significantly higher than the rest of the other rental properties around that area, making the landlord profit even more due to your improvements.

Keep all the before and after pictures, make sure they’re all date stamped. The fact that you hurt yourself and still didn’t want to bother your landlord and yet some people called a CF I then realised this was on AIBU and it all made a little more sense

Hopefully, it will all work out and best of luck with your move.

Talk to the landlords. However, in my experience they will argue tooth and nail to keep your deposit. You don't really get renting, never alter anything without agreement, and you waste your money by improving it by doing permanent changes like a patio. The place is just not yours.
Perhaps you can pursuade a friend of family member to come in and repaint in magnolia. A few weekend days should do it, cheaper than having the landlord doing it professionally.
Good luck, and congrats on your coming baby.

It's in your lease which you signed and agreed to. You didn't need to decorate, extend a patio or recarpet (if you needed a new carpet you should have requested the landlord to pay it).

I advise you speak with your landlord and ask them if they are happy for the property to stay as it is or if he/she wants it painting back to magnolia.

If you just leave (without either having a conversation or putting it all back to how it was) you are likely to lose some or all of your deposit

You might get away with the living room and hallway, but I'd repaint any room that's 'more colourful'

She is likely to be successful. We had tenants also move out after 5 years. We did a full repaint the week before they moved in. They asked if they could paper some walls, we agreed as long as it was returned to white. They left without painting over hideous flock style paper.
We had to get it stripped, papered with lining paper and then printed. We submitted evidence of the work we did (copies of receipts) as well as a copy of the email where the tenants agreed to reinstate as found.
DPS found in our favour and deducted from the deposit the amount we paid to put right

It's nothing to do with 9 years. If the property needed a fresh coat of paint the tenant should have requested the landlord do it, same with the flooring. She took it upon herself to decorate (she has no idea if the LL planned to come in half way through to decorate)

@HalzTangz

It's nothing to do with 9 years. If the property needed a fresh coat of paint the tenant should have requested the landlord do it, same with the flooring. She took it upon herself to decorate (she has no idea if the LL planned to come in half way through to decorate)

I asked if the landlord intended to paint the house after the year of allowing the plaster to breath. The response was 'no, you do it'. I asked if the carpets could be replaced for better quality at some stage. The response was again, a no. So I sorted both issues myself. I've explained all of this throughout the thread.

I finally met with the director today. She actually came to the house and did a viewing herself, so therefore had a chance to rece the decorating and discuss what needs to be done when I vacate.
I stayed in the lounge throughout the viewing out of the way. Man viewing refused to take his shoes off when she asked him to. That seemed a bit rude! But anyway.
After the viewing she came and sat down and we had a chat. She said that the decorating is good but the LL is concerned about the difficulty of covering darker colours like in the hallway. Obviously I agreed that that is an issue. She told me she's spoken to the LL after our conversation on the phone and they'd agreed that they'd probably have to do some painting and maintenance after a 9 year tenancy, so that seems to be a 180 turn which im pleased about. She also commented that she'd told them that the flooring I've put down has saved them having to recarpet, both right now and also after the next tenancy. She actually seemed to be on my side and said that she thinks the house looks great. The only thing she'd want me to change is the kid's bedrooms, which i plan to do anyway. She did say though that just because she likes the decorating throughout the house it doesn't mean the LL will and that I might lose some of my deposit. I said that's fine.

Oops, hit post too soon.

I will happily lose all of my deposit if, once I've been through arbitration, it's decided that that is the fair outcome. But I will definitely appeal any deductions made. They can decide what is a fair outcome and whatever they decide I will abide by.

They approved it under the condition the walls return to magnolia when you moved out. You agreed to this. You are now breaking your agreement

@Iwab82

After 9 years without needing to decorate the landlord would be very cheeky to keep the deposit. If the landlord had had a tenant each year for 9 years they would have needed to paint it at least 4 or 5 times by now and would've had to change the flooring at least once.

But the option for the LL to redecorate or put new carpet down was taken away by the tenant who chose to do it herself. She could have asked the LL to do it (I suspect the reason she didn't is because the LL would have done Magnolia which she didn't want, and replace the carpet with something similar to what was already in). The tenant chose to undertake those tasks. The tenant also agreed to return to Magnolia.

The tenancy length is irrelevant, if a LL occurs costs he can claim it from the DPS