To not put the house back to what it was?

[QuantumDog2]

I've rented the house I live in currently for nearly 9 years. When I moved in it was a new build and we were the first to live here, so obviously a buy to let. The walls were all trade paint magnolia and the carpets were cheap, exactly the way new builds are presented as standard.
Over the years I've decorated it and made some improvements like extending the patio and I spend £1400 on new flooring for the lounge because the carpet was worn out by that stage and looked grotty.
Now I'm leaving as I've bought somewhere with my partner, but contractually apparently I have to return the property the way I found it. I'm 6 months pregnant now and don't fancy donning my overalls and climbing ladders to paint. What would you do? I feel like after 9 years here and the time and money I've spent on the place (although my choice totally) I shouldn't really be penalised, but I expect I will lose my deposit?

@peachycream31

If the people viewing at the moment are seeing the house with coloured walls, I BET they'll check if the new tenant wants it back to magnolia before moving in. ...

If they don't, you really shouldn't have to pay for it.

So after you move out, wait and see if it gets painted. If it doesn't and they try to dock you for it ... good arguing point.

Surely though you just say 'I've dove a wood floor and patio and the repainting and fixing necessary to the walls over the years do I don't think it's at all reasonable to ask now for repainting'. ?

This. As I said earlier, if I agreed to rent the place as it is now and found it had turned magnolia when I moved in, I’d be absolutely gutted. Surely the entire point of a bland colour scheme is to maximise its appeal? If it’s appealing without being beige, why bother? I bet that house stays exactly as it is and the ll will pocket the deposit.

Fight it @QuantumDog2.

I think YABU because the LL gave permission for you to paint it whatever colour you wanted on the provisio it was returned to magnolia before you left. You agreed to this so you need to hold up your end of the agreement or accept that they will try and keep at least some of your deposit to do it themselves.

If you said "I want to paint the house but I have no intention painting it back to magnolia when I leave" I imagine they would not have given permission in the first place.

I live in a Housing Association property, when I moved in nearly 2 years ago it needed painting because the previous tenant had painted the bedrooms a dark plum colour, the bathroom about 3 different colours and she had used pink spray paint to graffiti all over the walls in the hall/living room cant imagine why she was evicted so it was more than just "a touch up" and required a good 3/4 coats of paint in each room. Because they wanted a quick turnover and it was only cosmetic work that was required (although it was extensive) the agent gave me two options - I didn't get the keys for another 2 weeks and they would get their contract painter in and it would all be covered up with cheap magnolia, which would be touched up every 3-4 years on the standard maintenance schedule, or they could give me the keys now and £120 vouchers to the local B&Q to put towards doing the decorating myself but it would be my responsibility for any maintenence of said decoration.

I snatched their hands off at the vouchers, spent £20 on brushes/trays/rollers etc, £50 on a couple of 10l tubs of mid-range but decent quality durable pale grey emulsion just to get the walls back to a neutral colour, £10 on a tin of gloss for skirtings/doors and put the other £40 towards paint for the bedrooms. 2 years later and other than the occasional wipe with a magic eraser if there is a scuff markfrom DD dragging her bag against the wall in the hall and I have not had to do any paint touch up at all. Meanwhile my neighbour (who moved in a year ago and whose previous tenant left the place in a decent state so it was just given the magnolia touch up) is always complaining about the quality of the paint job because it scuffs/marks really easily and she is constantly having to wipe down the walls and they constantly look scruffy and worn. She refuses to spend any money on painting though because then she would be responsible for the upkeep and the HA wouldn't repaint again during her tenancy.

I don't think anyone is being a cheeky fucker in this situation. It's obviously been a happy home for you for 9 years and part of that was decorating it the way you liked. I wouldn't let the wrangling about the deposit and leaving the property sour your memories of it. The landlord got the impression you were happier doing things yourself and while that wasn't quite the whole truth it seems like it was just a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Hopefully you can work something out amicably.

I wouldn't go around ripping up the patio, that would be only be causing hassle for yourself in terms of making good the garden, but if you want to put back the landlords curtain poles and light fittings you're well within your rights. Don't get bogged down in negativity about a home that served you well when you're moving on to better things. Best of luck with the move.

Oh my God. I'm raging. Just got off the phone with the agent who informs me that 'legally you cannot deny access for viewings'. I said that I can and I will if the landlord doesn't clarify my position with decorating. And as that hasn't happened, I'm not doing the viewings this afternoon. She then gave me a lengthy shpiel about how this is not a fair or good way to do business.
She said that all my correspondence with the landlord is worthless because it should have been through the agent.

And the finally, the bit that made me want to punch something.....the landlord says they paid for half of the flooring! Wtf?????? She said 'have you got proof that you paid in full'. I probably have, yes. But has the landlord got proof that they paid half??? No, obviously not. Because they didn't. I'm gobsmacked.

Wow so either the agent is deliberately lying to you or really doesn't know what they're talking about. Of course you can legally stop viewings, you're under no legal obligation to allow viewings 🙄

I really hope you can find the proof that you paid for the flooring. It sounds like you're going to need it for the tenants deposit scheme people.

@WineInTheBlood

Wow so either the agent is deliberately lying to you or really doesn't know what they're talking about. Of course you can legally stop viewings, you're under no legal obligation to allow viewings 🙄

I really hope you can find the proof that you paid for the flooring. It sounds like you're going to need it for the tenants deposit scheme people.

I'm so mad. I was saying on the phone to the agent 'I can refuse viewings and so I am'. Holding my own, but inside thinking 'are you sure Quantum?'

@QuantumDog2

Oh my God. I'm raging. Just got off the phone with the agent who informs me that 'legally you cannot deny access for viewings'. I said that I can and I will if the landlord doesn't clarify my position with decorating. And as that hasn't happened, I'm not doing the viewings this afternoon. She then gave me a lengthy shpiel about how this is not a fair or good way to do business. She said that all my correspondence with the landlord is worthless because it should have been through the agent.

And the finally, the bit that made me want to punch something.....the landlord says they paid for half of the flooring! Wtf?????? She said 'have you got proof that you paid in full'. I probably have, yes. But has the landlord got proof that they paid half??? No, obviously not. Because they didn't. I'm gobsmacked.

OK. Stop.

Don't rage, don't shout.

Clarify that conversation in an email - and copy in your landlord (who may have paid the agent....!!!!)

Dear Agent,

After our discussion today I wanted to clarify a few issues.

You informed me that I cannot, in law, deny access for viewing. We both know that this is not so, we have a right to quiet enjoyment and I am exercising my right to say no. Given the lack of communication between us and the landlord I need to clarify what is required of me regarding redecoration after 9 yeras of tenancy and can do nothing whilst being interrupted by viewings.

You informed me that the landlord had paid towards the flooring we had laid. This is incorrect. Could you provide me with any email, letter you have that states this? Any receipt for said money? We paid for all of the flooring, as well as other works we agreed (list them) with the landlord and did not receive any form of contribution towards any of the works.

I await your response
QuantumDog

And wait...

I really hope you can find the proof that you paid for the flooring. It sounds like you're going to need it for the tenants deposit scheme people. Fortunately any proof @QuantumDog2 has that she paid for the works does not prove that the landlord did or did not make any contribution at all.

So a credit card statement would be fine. You should be able to access that, statements are held for 10 years, I think.

But the landlord and agent would have to show the movement of any money from account to account to prove they did indeed contribute.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I really hope you can find the proof that you paid for the flooring. It sounds like you're going to need it for the tenants deposit scheme people. Fortunately any proof *@QuantumDog2* has that she paid for the works does not prove that the landlord did or did not make any contribution at all.

So a credit card statement would be fine. You should be able to access that, statements are held for 10 years, I think.

But the landlord and agent would have to show the movement of any money from account to account to prove they did indeed contribute.

I've got a new bank since the floor was laid. I'm not sure how I'd access statements that old, but maybe I could, I don't know.

Yes, I was thinking that. The landlord has never transferred me any money or given me a discount on my rent in return. So how was that hold water?

So how was that hold water? It doesn't, which is why you now need to get things in writing, get a paper trail. Who knows who told who what? You can only use what you have been told to start finding your own information and wait for the eventual claim against the deposit.

This just gets messier. But why are you wanting to deny access to viewings?

Wouldn’t it be better all round to allow the viewings to go ahead?
After all prospective new tenants might well be happy with colour scheme and that could resolve the matter.

If you have to allow access for viewings make sure you tell them that the flooring, light fittings, patio etc are coming with you and that the LL is returning everything to magnolia.

If the LL wants to be an arse then two can play that game.

I'd be digging up those bloody roses and chucking a few dandelions about the place
Take that flooring and your lovely poles & light fittings.
Is it too much to hire a digger and make the path uneven again?

OP, you need to take a step back and be cool and collected. It probably wasn't a good idea to refuse the viewings. You need to give the landlord more than 24 hours to reply. If you are obstructive, you are less likely to get what you want as you will annoy the landlord.

The agent sounds like an idiot. Of course, any correspondence you have with the landlord isn't "worthless". You do indeed have the legal right to refuse access for viewings, as you have a statutory right to quiet enjoyment. However, you signed a contract that agreed to allow viewings. A contract can't override your statutory rights so you can still refuse viewings, whatever it says. BUT you will be in breach of contract so you are liable for any losses the landlord incurs as a result of that breach. If refusing viewings means that they cannot find a tenant to move in immediately after you leave, you could be held liable for the lost rent for any void period.

I think you may have already burned your bridges with the landlord by digging in your heels and refusing point blank to repaint but maybe, if you swallow your pride, you might still be able to use your improvements as leverage in negotiations (they won't count for anything with the deposit scheme).

You need to bear in mind that the landlord has no idea that you have been doing all the maintenance work yourself nor (I assume) that you are planning on leaving things like (high quality) light shades and curtain poles that match the decor. She also thinks that she did you a favour by letting you decorate as you wish and you have gone back on the agreement to repaint it.

Use this guide to illustrate how your improvements have saved her money eg the lifespan for the original carpet was 5/8/13 years (depending on the quality), hardwood flooring has a much longer lifespan, so show how much it would have cost her to replace the carpet multiple times to get the same lifespan and how much it cost you. Show her that is expected that landlords will need to redecorate every 5 years and how much you have saved her by decorating yourself. Tell her how much you paid for the maintenance issues like the path and improvements to the garden (send photos). You could also point out that you have saved her 9 years of marketing fees as she hasn't had to relet (get the figures from the letting agent website). You need to be rational and make a financial argument rather then getting emotional and being difficult.

www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Product_Lifespans_Guide_NRLA_version_Updated_Feb_2021.pdf

I've got a new bank since the floor was laid. I'm not sure how I'd access statements that old, but maybe I could, I don't know.

You said that you have the correspondence with the landlord getting permission to change the carpet to wooden flooring. Surely who was paying was discussed in that? If neither of you have proof of payment, the correspondence will be taken as being correct.

@kgov1

If you have to allow access for viewings make sure you tell them that the flooring, light fittings, patio etc are coming with you and that the LL is returning everything to magnolia.

If the LL wants to be an arse then two can play that game.

Very good point.

cheshirecat is absolutely spot on. Really do heed her words. It will stand you in good stead.

[quote chesirecat99]OP, you need to take a step back and be cool and collected. It probably wasn't a good idea to refuse the viewings. You need to give the landlord more than 24 hours to reply. If you are obstructive, you are less likely to get what you want as you will annoy the landlord.

The agent sounds like an idiot. Of course, any correspondence you have with the landlord isn't "worthless". You do indeed have the legal right to refuse access for viewings, as you have a statutory right to quiet enjoyment. However, you signed a contract that agreed to allow viewings. A contract can't override your statutory rights so you can still refuse viewings, whatever it says. BUT you will be in breach of contract so you are liable for any losses the landlord incurs as a result of that breach. If refusing viewings means that they cannot find a tenant to move in immediately after you leave, you could be held liable for the lost rent for any void period.

I think you may have already burned your bridges with the landlord by digging in your heels and refusing point blank to repaint but maybe, if you swallow your pride, you might still be able to use your improvements as leverage in negotiations (they won't count for anything with the deposit scheme).

You need to bear in mind that the landlord has no idea that you have been doing all the maintenance work yourself nor (I assume) that you are planning on leaving things like (high quality) light shades and curtain poles that match the decor. She also thinks that she did you a favour by letting you decorate as you wish and you have gone back on the agreement to repaint it.

Use this guide to illustrate how your improvements have saved her money eg the lifespan for the original carpet was 5/8/13 years (depending on the quality), hardwood flooring has a much longer lifespan, so show how much it would have cost her to replace the carpet multiple times to get the same lifespan and how much it cost you. Show her that is expected that landlords will need to redecorate every 5 years and how much you have saved her by decorating yourself. Tell her how much you paid for the maintenance issues like the path and improvements to the garden (send photos). You could also point out that you have saved her 9 years of marketing fees as she hasn't had to relet (get the figures from the letting agent website). You need to be rational and make a financial argument rather then getting emotional and being difficult.

www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Product_Lifespans_Guide_NRLA_version_Updated_Feb_2021.pdf[/quote]
Fab advice, thank you!

I would also bear in mind that the landlord probably does truly believe that she paid 50% of the cost of the wooden flooring. I would be tactful in pointing out her mistake and if you can find any proof, send a copy with it eg the original email thread and any receipts.

It might in some ways be a good "in" to restart negotiations, reframe the tension between you and the landlord as stemming from this misunderstanding and that you could see her point of view about the paintwork if she didn't realise that you had paid for the flooring that she will continue to benefit from IYSWIM? Try to diffuse the situation now it has escalated somewhat.

I've got a new bank since the floor was laid. I'm not sure how I'd access statements that old, but maybe I could, I don't know.

OP, it might be worth contacting your old bank and asking them what their archiving policy is - it can vary across banks.

Leave as is and wait for them to tell you what needs to be done. The letting agent will be telling landlord/lady what is reasonable to ask for. They are not on the landlord's side.
My tenants TRASHED the place, stole the curtains and curtain rods, and destroyed the lawn. Burn holes through the new carpet. Total £3500 damage. But I got £600 from them.

Have a word with your landlord, explaining the work that you have done, I guess they gave you the permission, when you did the work?
Then ask if they want you to redecorate it,they might let you leave it like that.
I colleague of mine rented, she wanted to up date her kitchen, to her liking, her landlord let her as it added value to the property. But she had asked permission first. Good luck.

When my nextdoor neighbours had a similar issue they told their landlord that they would gladly allow him to withhold the deposit to cover the cost of repainting but they would be removing all of the improvements they had made.

As many of the improvements were listed in the particulars advertising the property and were shown in the photos the landlord wasn't too happy about that and became much easier to deal with.

I've left 2 private rentals before and both landlords tried everything to keep the deposit. I left as instructed too.
Just be careful. Go thru the deposit scheme and if necessary then raise a dispute. But bear in mind..... they can and they will try to keep all your deposit. But they can also claim ON TOP of that, if they deem the work to put it back to its original state costing more than the deposit.
I've had terrible times with landlords but going thru the deposit scheme worked in my favour eventually with both and I got back both of my full deposits.
Take photos for evidence as their will have been a full itinerary taken with photos before you moved in.

To be honest, it is a reasonable request, I've redecorated where I live several times but that's why I always stick to magnolia as it needs to be the way it was when we move out apart from wear and tear obviously.