To not put the house back to what it was?

[QuantumDog2]

I've rented the house I live in currently for nearly 9 years. When I moved in it was a new build and we were the first to live here, so obviously a buy to let. The walls were all trade paint magnolia and the carpets were cheap, exactly the way new builds are presented as standard.
Over the years I've decorated it and made some improvements like extending the patio and I spend £1400 on new flooring for the lounge because the carpet was worn out by that stage and looked grotty.
Now I'm leaving as I've bought somewhere with my partner, but contractually apparently I have to return the property the way I found it. I'm 6 months pregnant now and don't fancy donning my overalls and climbing ladders to paint. What would you do? I feel like after 9 years here and the time and money I've spent on the place (although my choice totally) I shouldn't really be penalised, but I expect I will lose my deposit?

@WhoIsPepeSilva

I was in my last place a number of years, it wasn't ideal in a lot of ways. I made small improvements to make it more liveable because I'm fully aware of how depressing living in a shit house can be and how it affects you, like I said I've been there.

Anyway, when I moved some of those improvements were left behind because the LL was fine with the slight upgrade(s) and I had no use for them. Some of them - like the paint we had added to some of the rooms and lampshades for eg - were put back to original.

All of the improvements were done cheaply and with the understanding that this was not a forever home so nothing was a wrench to leave behind.

It doesn't matter to me really how much money you put in, the point of my post was that you put a fairly large chunk of money into upgrades for a house you weren't planning to stay in. Now you seem to resent having to keep to your agreement because of various reasons including how much you have invested in the property. You brought it up in the first place so it clearly matters to you how much you've spent so far.

You've been too open with your purse at times where your LL should have put up costs so yes they were CF in that respect, but I'm sorry you should have stood up for yourself in some cases because they were expenses the LL should have absorbed.

I'm sympathetic in some ways but you are acting quite badly and you are coming across as entitled IMO. You make an agreement, you stick to it whether you want to or not. You have no good reason not to here. There are lessons to be learned here but you don't seem to want to learn them.

I'll step away though because I don't want to upset you further and I do hope it all works out for you and you enjoy your new home.

I don't feel entitled in the slightest, isn't that weird? 🤔 I feel just very very pissed off at my landlord. I could never do that to someone.

I'm going to get my head down now. Hopefully tomorrow I'll feel better and clearer. You know, it's a hard decision to make because on one hand there are posters telling me I'm a CF and I'm entitled and out of order. And on the other hand there are posters saying I should hang in there, the LL is a CF and it's outrageous. It's hard to know what's wrong and what's right.

The only conclusion I can reach is that on the one hand we have property owners who can see it from the landlord's perspective. And on the other hand we have people like me (property owning or not) who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and lived on the bottom rung.
In my 20s I owned a lovely farmhouse that featured in a national interiors magazine. I've since fallen on hard times it would seem. I'm 41 now and if I'm ever a landlord myself I'll do things fairly.

@WineInTheBlood

I'm 100% on your side and I think the tenancy deposit scheme people will be too. Really not sure why so many people are giving you a hard time on here. You sound like a dream tenant - you've really looked after the place and it will go in your favour that your landlord hasn't done a thing to the place in 9 years. As others have said just take loads of photos! It made me laugh when a pp said denim drift and pale pink was a bit extreme 😂

Thank you. I guess it's AIBU and a lot of people just come here for the bloodshed. xx

@QuantumDog2 True - and so take it with a big pinch of salt. You could post on AIBU about wanting to donate a kidney and someone would call you entitled.
You'll be fine - don't stress any more about it. Good luck with the move.

[quote WineInTheBlood]@QuantumDog2 True - and so take it with a big pinch of salt. You could post on AIBU about wanting to donate a kidney and someone would call you entitled.
You'll be fine - don't stress any more about it. Good luck with the move. [/quote]
Ahh, you've made me bawl again! So much going on in my life at the moment, I could literally have 30 threads going on here. But this stupid paint thing is the hill I choose to die on... I'm a fool.
Thank you for your kindness, I'll try and remember that posting on AIBU only ever ends in tears. x

I'm not a LL, have never and probably never will own property OP I can totally see things from your perspective. I'm not sat in my ivory tower FWIW.

@QuantumDog2 Oh no! Don't! Moving house is the most stressful thing after divorce and death (or something like that 😄) so this is an added complication you don't need. You're definitely not a fool.
The thing is you've mentally written off your deposit so what's the worst that can happen? Personally I think you'll get your deposit back, but regardless, don't pay any more attention to anyone on here being twattish towards you.

The only conclusion I can reach is that on the one hand we have property owners who can see it from the landlord's perspective. And on the other hand we have people like me (property owning or not) who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and lived on the bottom rung. In my 20s I owned a lovely farmhouse that featured in a national interiors magazine. I've since fallen on hard times it would seem

Eh?

You “owned a lovely farmhouse in your 20s” but simultaneously claim that you “pulled yourself up by your bootstraps”? Owning a farmhouse featured in an interiors magazine in your twenties tends not to be a feature of the lives of people struggling their way out of poverty, which I assume is what you mean by ‘living on the bottom rung’.

In any case, you seem determined to claim that landlords are the opposite of the brave bootstrap-pullers like you. None of them have ever lived on this bottom rung of yours, in your version of the world. I get that you are upset with your landlord but it undermines your argument when you claim that all landlords are rich bastards out to screw over the poor bootstrap pullers and bottom rungers, including those who once owned luxury farmhouses.

If the people viewing at the moment are seeing the house with coloured walls, I BET they'll check if the new tenant wants it back to magnolia before moving in. ...

If they don't, you really shouldn't have to pay for it.

So after you move out, wait and see if it gets painted. If it doesn't and they try to dock you for it ... good arguing point.

Surely though you just say 'I've dove a wood floor and patio and the repainting and fixing necessary to the walls over the years do I don't think it's at all reasonable to ask now for repainting'. ?

@QuantumDog2

DP suggests taking the floor up and installing it in our new house. The carpet in the new house is tired and would be replaced by us anyway, so we could do a direct swap. He thinks we should take the patio and everything else I've put in to the house, including nice light fittings and curtain poles (which I would have left) and even digging up the planting I've done in the garden. Then he says he'll get a friend in to paint the whole house white for us. White will be easier according to him because the woodwork and ceilings are white.

Definitely do this.

Your landlord sounds awful and they definitely shouldn’t benefit from your things.

Crikey, if I was your landlord and you'd put in hardwood flooring and extended my patio at your own cost aid be grateful! After 9 years the carpets would have to be replaced anyway. As for the paint - I'd let that go as a 'trade'.

@Iamthewombat

The only conclusion I can reach is that on the one hand we have property owners who can see it from the landlord's perspective. And on the other hand we have people like me (property owning or not) who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and lived on the bottom rung. In my 20s I owned a lovely farmhouse that featured in a national interiors magazine. I've since fallen on hard times it would seem

Eh?

You “owned a lovely farmhouse in your 20s” but simultaneously claim that you “pulled yourself up by your bootstraps”? Owning a farmhouse featured in an interiors magazine in your twenties tends not to be a feature of the lives of people struggling their way out of poverty, which I assume is what you mean by ‘living on the bottom rung’.

In any case, you seem determined to claim that landlords are the opposite of the brave bootstrap-pullers like you. None of them have ever lived on this bottom rung of yours, in your version of the world. I get that you are upset with your landlord but it undermines your argument when you claim that all landlords are rich bastards out to screw over the poor bootstrap pullers and bottom rungers, including those who once owned luxury farmhouses.

It wasn't a luxury farmhouse. It was a derelict mess inhabited by squatters. We worked hard and saved and picked it up for a pittance. So yeah, I do feel proud of that. We did it with no help from anyone else.

[quote fucketyfuckwit]@CuriousaboutSamphire I'm glad we agree! 😁

Have we spoken in the past? A few years back?

I did speak to someone who used to be a teacher and then changed to be an inventory clerk.[/quote]
Yes! We did didn't we?

The issue isn’t whether you “felt proud”, which is irrelevant. It’s your determination to present yourself as a plucky bottom rung striver (not like those rich bastard landlords!) who now deserves to do as she pleases to somebody else’s house because…er…you supposedly “pulled yourself up by your bootstraps” and anyone who didn’t, in your assessment, should just suck up changes you made to their property which you agreed to reverse and now won’t.

[quote BungleandGeorge]@CuriousaboutSamphire
Have you ever seen one of those fire doors in action? They are extremely heavy (as they’re fire doors) and swing shut with some force, they’d break your fingers with no bother. So yes tricky if you’re renting but there is a very good reason to cut them! I’m not sure of the need for a self closing door in a normal family home, but obviously it’s required by building regs[/quote]
Yes. I see them regularly. Many HMOs and properties of 3+ floors.

The 'heaviness' of the closure is adjustable, to account for the various weights of fire door. There shouldn't be a need to cut anything. Especially if you are renting and the bloody thing doesn't belong to you!

You sound like a lovely tenant. My husband is a landlord and he would let the paintings go.
We had long term tenants once who wallpapered both reception rooms and replaced the carpet with laminate. The paper wasn’t to everyone’s taste but it was neat and tidy and when they left we didn’t insist they change it. The next tenants liked it.
I would offer a trade, your solid floor, curtain poles etc for the walls? I think you’d get your deposit back tbh
Only a real dick would insist on returning walls to magnolia which weren’t even properly painted in the first instance.

@GetOffThatPhone That piece also includes

The industry guidance would suggest that if a tenant has lived in a property for five or more years (and they are not required by a contract to carry out redecoration themselves) there is little prospect of success in a claim for costs where the tenant hasn't caused the need for redecoration. and OP says her contract includes a "return to magnolia clause"

All she can do is dispute the claim and see what they decide at arbitration.

OP,

Were there any fittings like curtain poles/light fittings in the house when you moved in?

Because if not, it actually beggars belief at the cheek of that LL.

In my 20's I rented lots of flats/apartments/houses and in the main was very lucky with LL.

But if the house was in as raw a state as it seems, it really is extraordinarily cheeky.

Did you do a job on the garden?

Did you cut the grass?

My LL had my grass cut, we never had to do any outside maintenance on HIS property.

Have you planted plants?

I think the LL is a total piss taker. 9 years of no repairs or maintenance, they've had such an easy ride and should be grateful you've kept the place in good condition.

@billy1966

OP,

Were there any fittings like curtain poles/light fittings in the house when you moved in?

Because if not, it actually beggars belief at the cheek of that LL.

In my 20's I rented lots of flats/apartments/houses and in the main was very lucky with LL.

But if the house was in as raw a state as it seems, it really is extraordinarily cheeky.

Did you do a job on the garden?

Did you cut the grass?

My LL had my grass cut, we never had to do any outside maintenance on HIS property.

Have you planted plants?

There were very cheap curtain poles and light shades in every room, yes. I removed them when I moved in and saved them all in the garage, just incase. The garden was just grass and dandelions up to my knees. I've planted it over the years, mostly with roses because the soil's boggy here, and it looks nice now.

I'm going to give the agents a call shortly and see what's happening, if they spoke to the LL etc. I've got a bunch of viewings this afternoon.

And all these viewings while YOU are paying rent.

CF.

Clearly you are far too accomdating for someone who doesn't deserve it.

I am a landlord, @QuantumDog2, and I see your point entirely!

The only reasons I could see for enforcing the return to magnolia is because they think that's what new tenants would prefer, or that it would make it easier to re-let it; OR that if it's magnolia, then they can get someone in to do a job-lot re-paint in one coat to make it look "fresh" again.

I hope the letting agent has been able to talk to your landlord and to say that actually some of the prospectives have really liked the décor. But that may not help in the long run if the "re-decoration" aspect is the actual reason for the clause.

If they insist on the paint job, I would take the hardwood flooring and the patio extension. They lose good will (which, IMO and IME is more valuable than almost anything else in the home rental business!) and so you take back what you otherwise would have left as a goodwill gesture.

I have to say your LL are real CF. I would be as petty as you and if they were insistent on the paint then I would change the floor and all the fixtures as you have said.

Also I think you should highlight that the viewers are looking at the home as it is and so if drastic changes are made such as the floor and fixtures then the LL will be in for a shock when new tenants move in.

I've been very lucky to have a brilliant LL who over the past 8 years has relaxed our carpets for us, even let us choose along with their consent. They have fixed everything we have asked for within a few days and allowed us to repaint but they actually paid for the paint for us. In return we have maintained the house to high standards and it is also a new build. Some LL are scum. I would be standing my ground with yours OP

Take the hardwood flooring and the patio ? Do you know how much it would cost the OP to make good on that ?

@QuantumDog2

I couldn't be bothered with that

Sadly you have got yourself into this position by not taking action when you needed to and your LL has just let you get on with it . You are both in the wrong here - them not doing maintenance etc and you not asking for it but at the end of the day it is the LL's property . Hopefully you will be able to reach a suitable agreement and you know better for future . There are as many CF tenants as there are CF LLs.

Not all LLs are rich bastards leeching off people you know! I've been an accidental one after the death of my parents for a period of time. We were exceptionally kind and helpful and even reduced rent when our tenant was struggling.

If it were me I would definitely take the trade of the upgrade of flooring and patio and the fact that you have been a model tenant and I haven't had to pay additional costs throughout this period as you have been there for 9 years.

I would recognise that the place would need an overall now after 9 years duration. But as with most things communication is key here and it's always best to state your case logically, politely and genuinely and then normally a good compromise can be reached all round.

If you calmly state to the agent the improvements that you have made, that will benefit the property for the future, and surely these can be traded for painting back to neutral this may well be sufficient going forward.

It literally depends what type of LL you have as theoretically you need to repaint to neutral as per the agreement. As you can see some people will understand completely and say no need, others will say yes there is a need.

But as with any form of negotiation best to do this calmly without emotion and don't muddy the waters with perceived grievances etc.