Forcing young teens to socialise as a family - do you?

[Dinkydonk55]

Eldest dc is 13. Bit of an introvert, gets quite socially anxious, doesn’t do small talk, has friends at school but not open to making new ones/developing friendships.

There’s a bbq tomorrow with our small group from church, there will be some girls there her age who I know will be friendly but they’re not natural friends if you see what I mean. Did try to force something with one of them (mums plotting together) but it backfired so won’t try that again, lesson learnt!

I’m trying to get her to come with us, said she can just eat lunch then I promise I’ll take her home early if she’s had enough, as she does have homework to do.
But she’s adamant she’s not coming.

Do I force it?

So far I’ve said that she’s not quite old enough to always stay home and sometimes still has to do stuff with the family. But she’s digging her heels in and I don’t know how far to push it.

I think partly I want her to come because I’ll be a bit embarrassed if she doesn’t, since the others will all be there with their chatty sociable teens. but I know that’s a stupid reason.

She’s my eldest and I don’t know how to play this.

We also suspect mild asd and she’s awaiting assessment.

Sometimes I’ve forced her to go places and she’s had a good time and was glad she went…
But I also remember the horror of being forced together with kids of my parents friends who I had nothing in common with.

AiBU to force her to come? (Although not actually sure how I would make her)

[quote UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme]the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/[/quote]
This is fab, thank you for sharing!

@HereForThis

Wow, that seems an unnecessarily aggressive response. Really? Aggressive? That post? Pray tell, which part was aggressive? The "crap" or anything else said? If so, do you feel aggression from all the other "craps", "fucks", "shits" and "cunts" on MN or is it just my "crap" that bothers you?

I sensed, perhaps, incorrectly, a degree of anger and hostility in your tone, that seemed to me, to be a tad excessive in response to my post.

If I was incorrect, I apologise.

By the way, my post wasn't referring to your post - not alone. I've read similar posts on this thread and other threads where people go on about so-called family gatherings. I still don't agree that they're/should be mandatory. But the way people tend to post these things seems to suggest Granny needs to be pacified all the time and has never learnt that the world doesn't revolve around her. I disagree. Just different opinions.

I don't know you or your children - I wasn't specifically talking about you/them. Try not to be too 'aggressive' in your conclusions and assumption.

I sensed, perhaps, incorrectly, a degree of anger and hostility in your tone, that seemed to me, to be a tad excessive in response to my post

If I was incorrect, I apologise.
Just seen your last post. Apology accepted. I wasn't angry. Perhaps it felt directed at you seeing as i posted after yours but it wasn't.

The confusion may have been caused by you directly referring to the scenario I had just posited. Thanks for clarifying!

I do agree that 'Grannies' and actually, indeed anybody of whatever age or gender, do need to know that their word is not law, and their wishes aren't royal commands. That sometimes compromises need to be made, and disappointments accepted.

I think young ones that grow up not having learned that, grow into very tedious older ones refusing to accept that.

Well I agree but people tend to always expect children to do so... more so than adults because 'children are meant to do as they're told'. Hence, my stand that 'Grannies' and adult family members also need to remember that lesson, if they learnt it at all.

The "compulsory birthday crap" is a good way to see lots of people in one go so not to be obliged to see them for a longer. It is possible that small but more frequent gatherings are preferred.

Well, it can be difficult, because of course, with children, they don't enjoy the same autonomy as adults, and if a child that is not old enough to stay at home or cannot be trusted to behave responsibly, then either someone has to stay at home to supervise them if they don't want to go, or they have to go along.

(Incidentally, at Granny's 80th (she'd skin me if she knew I were calling them that), my youngest had a migraine, so she stayed home for the big dinner, and my eldest stayed with her. Granny was disappointed, but understood, and also knew she'd have copped short shrift if she'd pulled any shit about it with me).

[quote Blackkbird]@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Are you a psychiatrist?

I am diagnosed with 2 of those mentioned and there is indeed a "spectrum" ie high end and low end, so I don't think it's mad to refer to it as mild. I see that as quite dismissive. [/quote]
But that's not very helpful for people who are 'high functioning' but really struggle with some things.

This wheel diagram is much more helpful. My child is very high functioning in some respects but very low in others. A church bbq would be his idea of hell. My friend's child is severely autistic but super friendly and loves people.

themighty.com/2020/03/autism-spectrum-wheel/ this explains it

If she is shy it might back fire on you as she might not respond how you are hoping with the chatty teens. Google infant reflexes not going dormant and see if that applies to her. Sometimes people who find socialising overwhelming do so because of mild sensory issues rather then mild ASD.

Blackkbird perhaps you are. Psychiatrists rarely see the whole person, just snapshots of an hour or 90 minutes. Not all psychiatrists are good. Did you follow the link to the cartoon strip and wheel diagram I posted?

ASD doesn't "go from" mild to severe; rather people are impacted by different aspects of it in different ways, and its dismissive to say that someone who is (perhaps highly) verbal and able to attend mainstream school or hold down a job has "mild" ASD and someone non verbal who attends a special school or day center and has cognitive impairment has "severe" ASD - the ASD may be impacting both individuals equally, or indeed the first person may be living their entire life around masking and coping with ASD while the second person's life situation is defined by their cognitive impairment, with their specific combination of ASD traits not severely impacting how they would live/ feel/ cope, should they "only" have learning disabilities without ASD. Of course that person's life might be severely impacted by ASD - but its not a line from mild to severe.

One person with ASD is an expert in their own experiences of ASD and perhaps those of their friends or family, who may have similar experience, but not in those of everyone else.

And in answer to the OP, no I wouldn't force her. The only good reason you take children to social occasions they don't want to be at is if they are too young or vulnerable to be left home alone.

As neither of those apply to your DD, leave her at home.

I think the other part of this is how you live with w grumpy anti social introvert. I have various uncles and a brother I'm this vein and it is difficult. And sometimes quite sad to live with even when you can see the world is quite a difficult place for them. I have to remind myself and my mum that everybody else's family's aren't perfect even if they look all chatty and smiley at the bbq

I'm afraid I don't know the answer, but I do understand where you're coming from. Mine is similar, and as she's 15 and will have to move schools for sixth form, I was beginning to get worried about how she would cope. I was very relieved when we went to a get-together of friends of ours, and she ended up getting on very well with their kids (who she's not met that she remembers).

Your situation is a little different, as she already knows the others, and maybe there's less sense in forcing it. On the other hand, if you give in on this one then you've lost forever the "you're too young to stay at home" argument for getting her to things. Going just for the lunch sounds like a good compromise. Do you know if she has particular worries? If she's worried about the teen group dynamic, are there younger kids she could help with, or something like that, so that she doesn't have to feel she has to tag on to a teen group she doesn't gel with?

I have a teeenage dd with autism. I don't force her to socialise.

@lanthanum

I'm afraid I don't know the answer, but I do understand where you're coming from. Mine is similar, and as she's 15 and will have to move schools for sixth form, I was beginning to get worried about how she would cope. I was very relieved when we went to a get-together of friends of ours, and she ended up getting on very well with their kids (who she's not met that she remembers).

Your situation is a little different, as she already knows the others, and maybe there's less sense in forcing it. On the other hand, if you give in on this one then you've lost forever the "you're too young to stay at home" argument for getting her to things. Going just for the lunch sounds like a good compromise. Do you know if she has particular worries? If she's worried about the teen group dynamic, are there younger kids she could help with, or something like that, so that she doesn't have to feel she has to tag on to a teen group she doesn't gel with?

Thank you, I think an element of it is that with covid coinciding with a big change in her (11-13), puberty, hormones, becoming socially anxious having been a really confident 10 yr old, she’s just really out of practice with these things and doesn’t know what she would do or what it would be like. And that is part of what’s making her anxious.

So that’s why part of me wanted her to come for a bit. And because of what the psychologist said about trying to make sure your anxiety doesn’t stop you from doing something you actually want to do.

She has 2 younger siblings she could be with (although the youngest might be off wit some playmates) and that adds another tricky angle as the middle child is often saying ‘why do I have to go when A doesn’t’ etc (but she is borderline too young to stay at home and does often have a good time).

But I’ve already said to her now she’s really welcome to come but I won’t force her. And I think both she and I are relieved!

No, l wouldn't force her.
My two sons weren't bothered about attending some family gatherings and l never forced them, l can understand why they would be bored stiff. They are still articulate, and sociable.

It’s also a bit of a journey for me and different way of thinking as the suspected asd is relatively new (within the last year).

Having come from a family where a lot of importance was placed on being well mannered and able to fakesocialise and chat politely with adults and ‘how far that gets you in life’ etc I have found it a bit hard that she can come across as a bit rude sometimes and in the past have forced things.
But am thinking about things differently now

I have a ds the same age, same view on socialising. I insist that he comes out somewhere every weekend for at least a couple of hours. I don't expect him to be life &soul but I expect him to be polite. I try very hard (and usually manage) to ensure he has a good time.
I see it as supporting him, not forcing him.

Have you read "Can you see me?" Its a fab book from a young female autistic girl and is brilliant at explainging some of the basics. Obviousky everyone is different and will have different triggers and resposnes but I often recommend it as it is so helpful to get a different perspectivd.

Also I think there's an element of learning how to do all the polite social chitchat (mask...) for when needed. A bit like learning "posh" table manners. But not requiring that from them on a regular basis when to them it can be overwhelming (especially on top of school/life...)

Christ-i wouldnt dream of trying to coerce my teens into places i was going-its just not fair! From that age they happily stayed home-their choice-doing whatever they pleased..its their downtime! Hold onto the thought that you know you feel concious that people notice shes absent-put a positive spin on it(if it matters that much)being dedicated to homework is hardly a crime.Maybe its preferable to being bored witless by teens/parents she has nothing in common with? Please put yourself in her shoes-she maybe questioning the religion thing too..most teens start to see through the indoctrination that was forced upon them

No you shouldnt force anyone to do something they would hate. Accept she is growing up and may not enjoy the same things as you. Including church.

@PileOfBooks

Also I think there's an element of learning how to do all the polite social chitchat (mask...) for when needed. A bit like learning "posh" table manners. But not requiring that from them on a regular basis when to them it can be overwhelming (especially on top of school/life...)

Why? Why should autistic people try and fit into neurotypical social occasions?

I think there's an element of learning how to do all the polite social chitchat (mask...) for when needed

I know little about ASD but I really don't think this is how it works somehow.