To wonder why a person who claims they have done 'extensive research'...

[Newrunner29]

...belives they are as knowledgeable as someone who has dedicated their career and have the relevant professional qualifications in a subject? It really fustrates me and makes me concerned for future.
I see on the Internet all the time this 'extensive research' line and think, what makes u more knowledgeable and also the line could literally mean anything.

I found this twitter feed which is loosely linked, even when confronted this person continues to spead misinformation. i would love to know why?
I would say there is a level of arrogance to it to.

@OrganicBagel

But you don’t need qualifications to do your own research. What a cop out! I don’t need qualifications to research car safety. I don’t need to run my own crash test dummy trials or be a qualified engineer. I need to read the “research” that has already been done and THAT is my research. That’s what most research is! I work in a Uni research centre where academics do research which mainly involves reading results of trials and other people’s research papers and making their own conclusions, or analysing data from other people’s studies They don’t run the trials themselves but it doesn’t make them not researchers! I have a degree in statistics and policy analysis. I my doesn’t make me more or less of a researcher than someone who studied medicine or politics. Research isn’t a particular science! Anyone can do research. It is gathering data and information and making conclusions.

The clue there lies in the fact that it is academics who are doing the research - i.e. people who already have qualifications in the relevant area who are able to pick out what is good evidence and what isn't.

The problem lies with people with no real understanding of the subject doing their research on the internet and being unable to pick out the rubbish from what is valid. And it becomes worse when they approach their "research" with a bias, so they automatically give more weight to anything which fits their own theories.

@Cuddlyrottweiler

I wish more people did their own research and made their own decisions rather than just accepting what they're told as fact. I don't like how easily people accept what they're told and obey people they've been told are above them. I think we train people from a young age to not challenge authority and it worries me.

There's a difference between challenging authority and being so arrogant that you think that your 5 mins of googling means that you are more superior to the person with the medical degree, postgraduate qualifications and 30 years experience.

Yes I'm talking to you Mr X from 3pm yesterday.

@OrganicBagel

But you don’t need qualifications to do your own research. What a cop out! I don’t need qualifications to research car safety. I don’t need to run my own crash test dummy trials or be a qualified engineer. I need to read the “research” that has already been done and THAT is my research. That’s what most research is! I work in a Uni research centre where academics do research which mainly involves reading results of trials and other people’s research papers and making their own conclusions, or analysing data from other people’s studies They don’t run the trials themselves but it doesn’t make them not researchers! I have a degree in statistics and policy analysis. I my doesn’t make me more or less of a researcher than someone who studied medicine or politics. Research isn’t a particular science! Anyone can do research. It is gathering data and information and making conclusions.

Yes, but does the average person know where to find the studies, how to ensure they have collected all the information available, how to analyse the work to assess which ones should be included and which ones shouldn't, which ones have higher levels of evidence, which ones have correct statistical analysis, which ones are underpowered to draw conclusions from, etc etc?

@OrganicBagel

But you don’t need qualifications to do your own research. What a cop out! I don’t need qualifications to research car safety. I don’t need to run my own crash test dummy trials or be a qualified engineer. I need to read the “research” that has already been done and THAT is my research. That’s what most research is! I work in a Uni research centre where academics do research which mainly involves reading results of trials and other people’s research papers and making their own conclusions, or analysing data from other people’s studies They don’t run the trials themselves but it doesn’t make them not researchers! I have a degree in statistics and policy analysis. I my doesn’t make me more or less of a researcher than someone who studied medicine or politics. Research isn’t a particular science! Anyone can do research. It is gathering data and information and making conclusions.

Most people don't have degrees in statistics and analysis. Most people are unable to internet scientific data. Googling is not research.

While most people can do enough research to make a decision on the best car seat to choose, this is about deciding that you don't need a car seat because 'I've done my research'. And disagreeing with scientists on the basis that 'I've done my research' is where tinfoil hattery flourishes

[quote Bewareoftheblob]@Newrunner29

'Just accepting what they're told as fact'
This is my point. Surely we need facts to be accepted! And not everyone who speaks are telling facts. They might believe they are but doesnt mean they are. And now with social media literacy anyone can say anything and claim it as fact, so dangerous!

Even among experts, opinions differ. What's wrong with being willing to think critically and engage with the debate? I'm not suggesting that the person in your image is a good example of that, but still.[/quote]
Becuase the person on the image is exactly why its a bad idea. If people genuinely thought critically we wouldnt be in such a mess as we are. I would hope children are taught critical thinking from young age. The problem we have is that isnt the case for a lot of people. And also when someone has gone down a rabbit hole and doing 'research' they are probably too far gone to even attempt to think critically else they wouldn't be where they are in the first place.

But we live in a world where facts no longer represent reality. We're told that people can change sex and sex is a spectrum and told we must know that despite it being contradicted by fact and science.
You can see why the difference between fact and opinion is becoming blurred.

And it is not true that if someone is diagnosed with a disease they automatically accept whatever treatment is suggested simply because the doctor is assumed to be knowledgeable.
I was diagnosed with CIN2 precancerous cells. I was told by a (qualified, obviously) gynaecologist that I needed an urgent LEEP procedure. I did some RESEARCH and found out that recent studies had shown that most cases of CIN2 reverted back to normal without intervention, so I asked my GP to refer me to a different gynaecologist for a second opinion. I was sent to St Mary’s (London) where I had a colposcopy and several biopsies and I was told I did not have CIN2 at all and that some labs “over diagnose” cases to fill quotas. There are (or were at the time) government targets of numbers of women to “treat” per month.
So by “doing my own research” I saved myself from an unnecessary invasive procedure.

@Cuddlyrottweiler but this is exactly the problem! Conspiracy theorists research normally involves reading and regurgitating other batshit conspiracy theorists ideas and claiming the rest of us are “sheeple” for not going along with this “research”.

That’s what has got us into this bloody mess! People confuse questioning authority with questioning facts .

@Newrunner29

...belives they are as knowledgeable as someone who has dedicated their career and have the relevant professional qualifications in a subject? It really fustrates me and makes me concerned for future. I see on the Internet all the time this 'extensive research' line and think, what makes u more knowledgeable and also the line could literally mean anything. I found this twitter feed which is loosely linked, even when confronted this person continues to spead misinformation. i would love to know why? I would say there is a level of arrogance to it to.

I agree, there was a post on here about climate change where a person claimed extensive research yet spouted a load of rubbish. My 20 year career centres around climate change, I have numerous qualifications yet according to the person I knew nothing haha

Also i dont think we should blindly follow everything, i just think their needs to be a line, so for example it should be expected to follow a health care professional instead ofy neighbour who works a plumber ( insert job not relating to medicine) has done some 'research'

You seemed to be suggesting that we should blindly believe. I don't agree with that, certainly not just because of a few idiots.

I'd argue it's impossible to simple believe what we're told. Few of us have the training and qualifications to engage properly with scientific research, and the government/media manipulate information to suit their own agenda. No wonder it's difficult to believe/engage with sometimes. I don't think there is anything wrong with a health dose of skepticism.

*Simply believe

Clymene

Sorry but googling is absolutely research. I found the Pfizer study protocol via Google! You have all the published studies you want online. You have all the infor from cancer societies, the NHS, the government, the ONS, the JCVI via Google!

It depends really, if I hadn’t done “extensive” research, I would still be sat here with the worst menopausal symptoms as he didn’t really believe in HRT! Fortunately my extensive research allowed me to confidently disagree with him.

Not all “experts” are expert in their whole field.

Do y"all remember, before the internet, that people thought the cause of stupidity was the lack of access to information? Yeah. It wasn't that.

Someone on the internet

@OrganicBagel

Clymene

Sorry but googling is absolutely research. I found the Pfizer study protocol via Google! You have all the published studies you want online. You have all the infor from cancer societies, the NHS, the government, the ONS, the JCVI via Google!

Yes but not everyone has the understanding to be able to correctly know to . Their has to he a basis of knowledge for example someone whos job it is.

@Newrunner29

And its not aboit being above them, its about someone spending years and years in this field and the other person having no experience just what they have read on the Internet regardless of the actuatecy (bad spelling)

You don’t know if the bloke posting is who he says he is either.

I think google has given people access to knowledge you would normally acquire through formal study, so you get the ‘empowerment ‘ that comes with knowledge, but no critical thinking skills to challenge it.

@Bewareoftheblob

You seemed to be suggesting that we should blindly believe. I don't agree with that, certainly not just because of a few idiots.

I'd argue it's impossible to simple believe what we're told. Few of us have the training and qualifications to engage properly with scientific research, and the government/media manipulate information to suit their own agenda. No wonder it's difficult to believe/engage with sometimes. I don't think there is anything wrong with a health dose of skepticism.

I literally just said thats not what i said 🤷🏼‍♀️

@OrganicBagel

But you don’t need qualifications to do your own research. What a cop out! I don’t need qualifications to research car safety. I don’t need to run my own crash test dummy trials or be a qualified engineer. I need to read the “research” that has already been done and THAT is my research. That’s what most research is! I work in a Uni research centre where academics do research which mainly involves reading results of trials and other people’s research papers and making their own conclusions, or analysing data from other people’s studies They don’t run the trials themselves but it doesn’t make them not researchers! I have a degree in statistics and policy analysis. I my doesn’t make me more or less of a researcher than someone who studied medicine or politics. Research isn’t a particular science! Anyone can do research. It is gathering data and information and making conclusions.

I absolutely love this and would entirely agree. Consultants in hospital might think they know everything but I'm not completely sure that they do....

The 'extensive research" usually just means "done a bit of googling of dodgy websites spouting bollocks"

I found this twitter feed which is loosely linked, even when confronted this person continues to spead misinformation. i would love to know why?
I would say there is a level of arrogance to it to.

One of the strongest commonalities amongst conspiracy theorists is apparently a need to feel special. So that's a difficult one to combat - if you present them with actual facts, the issue isn't, for example, that the strongest common factor is low educational level (and thus the problem isn't that they are unable to grasp the facts), the issue is that they want to feel superior to the crowd and thus will completely ignore the facts because believing what everyone else believes wouldn't make them special.

I'm not really sure what the answer is to that one!

Newrunner29

But you are dismissing anyone who says they have done research as being a dim Twitter reader. I have been attacked on mumsnet many times for claiming I’ve researched something or other, and when grilled for my qualifications I have been met with rude responses such as “yeah sure thing!”....
So you may think that people claiming to have done extensive research actually have just read conspiracy theories, but I think that says more about your own lack of ability to do research than anyone else’s! 🤣

I used to carry out research in a social science area. I know I have said I used to research in this area on here but it’s been a while so be aware. DH is Prof in a science subject. If we want to research stuff we use web of knowledge which is a database with peer reviewed research available to academic staff. If I want any advice about drugs I get in touch with my brother who is a retired drug development researcher or either of his Daughters who both work in similar fields. DH cousin is a GP and her DH is a surgeon.

Anyone can do research it’s the actual sources that are the issue. Even with peer reviewed stuff form respected journals you can interpret the stats to fit often.

I actually think knowing a lot of people who really are experts has no I’m older scared me a little because it is abundantly clear how little we actually really know.

I see one of my old colleagues on tv brought in as an expert, he bends stuff to fit his narrative.

On the flip side, should we all just acquiesce to anyone with the badge of a qualification? Accept a teacher knows our child better? Stand silent if someone with a history degree talks about a local monument we’ve grown up next to? There’s balance. Though even that balance will be lost.

I don’t understand the current fear of debate or difference of opinions. Just accept that due to human nature people will never reach complete agreement. The facts themselves will not be agreed on even. Even among those with the badge of qualifications.

It’s life. Move forward, decide your own opinion. Teach your children and let go of what you cannot control. There will be whole nation states in disagreement with you. North Korea will exist. Russia will implement laws you believe to be factually wrong.

You cannot control the internet. You can engage and debate if you wish. You don’t have to even have social media if you don’t want to

CatMandarin

The 'extensive research" usually just means "done a bit of googling of dodgy websites spouting bollocks"

You can’t possibly know what research someone has done unless they provide you with links to it. If that’s the only sort of research you yourself are capable of doing then that would explain why you might think this. I know there are crazy claims all over the internet and easing those is definitely not “research” but many of the “conspiracy theories” spouted online last year are now fact! There is often at least some truth behind them and researching these “crazy claims” often leads to actual evidence.