AIBU to risk MN disapproval by asking for help with my daughter's sleep here?

[WhereTheFuck]

I tried posting this in the Sleep section but no reply, so I'm reposting here in desperation! any advice welcome!

I co slept with my DD from birth but decided enough was enough and managed to get her to sleep in her cot by the end of June this year, when she was 20 months old. For a couple of months she went down at 8 ish and slept through until 4 or 5, then came into my bed for another couple of hours.. Which I was fine with and it felt great getting more sleep!

However, she has regressed in the last few weeks and the early morning wake up has got earlier and earlier to the extent that i can't really say she is sleeping through any more. Last night she woke up at midnight and cried until I took her into my bed sad

How do I fix this? She is still breastfed st night and in the morning, but I don't feed her to sleep- I put her in her cot awake. But in the night when she wakes she wants milk now sad it just feels like we are going backwards! Naps are hard too, often she takes up to an hour to fall asleep, but she definitely still needs a nap - once she does go to sleep she sleeps for at least an hour and a half (usually from about 1-2.30).

Any advice on how I can sort this? I'm a single parent, which makes it harder. During the week I work full time (she has a lovely nanny) and I need my sleep - I work 60 hour weeks.. Please help!

Options are probably night weaning from bf or back to co-sleeping.

Why was the co-sleeping disturbing you so much? Would her cot next to your bed be a better solution?

This might not be what you want to hear but in my experience/opinion it's completely normal for a young child to want to sleep with/near an adult caregiver - thousands of years of evolutionary pressure can really be trained out of individual children! But I do appreciate that sleep deprivation makes life very hard, especially when there isn't another parent around to share the load

Are you on the Facebook group The Beyond Sleep Training Project? They have some gentle nightweaning guidelines in a pinned post which might work well for you. Would you be happier cosleeping if she wasn't feeding at night (it's perfectly possible only to feed during the day)?

Sarah Ockwell-Smith also has some interesting data on what proportion of children sleep through at any particular age - spoiler alert: not many sleep 7-7 as seems to be portrayed as "the norm" in our society/culture!

Thanks @RandomMess. I agree night weaning would be good but not sure how to go about it and worried it will traumatize DD :(

I just didn't find she slept well at all when co-sleeping. She would wake 3 or 4 times a night for milk. Plus I found it very difficult having her in the bed as she got older because she moved around so much and disturbed me. Don't really want the cot in my room because I want to be able to talk to friends on the phone, read a book etc.

If she'll sleep in your bed, I'd do that. Prioritise getting sleep, rather than where it happens.

What made you decide 'enough was enough' with co-sleeping? If the arrangement was stopping you sleeping I understand, but if it was worry that she 'should' sleep in her own bed - fuck it.

Oh x-ed!

I could read and use a phone/laptop when co-sleeping so this was ok.

What about her bed, in your room, with a screen so you can read?

Thanks @outfoxedbyrabbits. I'll look those up. The thing is I don't expect her to sleep 7-7 but I do feel the amount of sleep she is getting now is only just enough, would love her to have more solid hours of restorative deep sleep. (And me too if I'm honest!)

The thing is @lannistunut that in.fact she sleeps worse overall in my bed. Like last night, after she came in at midnight she woke at 3 and at 5. It's just not helping either of us

@WhereTheFuck

The thing is *@lannistunut* that in.fact she sleeps worse overall in my bed. Like last night, after she came in at midnight she woke at 3 and at 5. It's just not helping either of us

What about in your room, but not in your bed?

Have you considered using a gro clock? I haven't used one but this is precisely what they were invented for.

I know you say she still needs a nap but I think that is probably the thing that will make a difference. Or if you want to keep the nap push bedtime right back by an hour or two.

@bastardmonkfish I have one, is great for getting her to sleep at night but she just ignores it when she wakes up :/

It just sounds like a normal phase unfortunately. If she was sleeping from 8-4ish without milk, that tells me she's wanting comfort for some reason and perhaps not hungry. Is she teething? Would calpol help? Has she been learning a new skill recently such as walking? I found practicing a skull as much as possible in the day time greatly improved sleep. If co-sleeping means you and her aren't getting a good night's sleep, I wouldn't go back to that or you'll end up doing that all the time. Just some gentle comfort when she wakes in the night but keeping it very dark, quiet and unexciting. She'll soon go back to her usual routine. Don't make any new long term habits for what could be a short term phase.

@WhereTheFuck

Thanks *@outfoxedbyrabbits*. I'll look those up. The thing is I don't expect her to sleep 7-7 but I do feel the amount of sleep she is getting now is only just enough, would love her to have more solid hours of restorative deep sleep. (And me too if I'm honest!)

I wouldn't worry about her getting the "more solid hours of restorative deep sleep", children don't have the same sleep needs as adults and in fact sometimes what would be beneficial for an adult would be actively harmful for a child (for example, deep sleep is actually extremely risky for babies and conversely frequent waking is protective against SIDS - I know yours isn't a tiny baby any more but those things take time to change over).

But more sleep for you, on the other hand, would of course be excellent Does the cosleeping disturb you or do you just feel you "shouldn't" be doing it? Because if it's the latter I'd just crack on in the knowledge that my child is totally normal and will grow out of it before leaving home

The other thing I did was when I was going to bed, I'd quietly creep into DC room, tuck her in again and give her a kiss. Gently rousing her (so she'd shuffle a bit) but not waking her. This interrupted her deep sleep but found that this made her sleep through for some reason. It was usually around 11ish at night I'd do this.

Both mine were shit sleepers.

With my first she was exclusively breastfed but I weaned her at about 15 months and the sleep improved a lot after that. With my second I switched all the night feeds to formula when she was 8 months and almost instantly she improved - now she has a dream feed at 10pm and either wakes for one feed at about 4am, or not at all. Wakes up for the day at about 7am.

I know you might not like either of those suggestions, but I've found that breastfeeding and sleeping through the night cannot co-exist. Other people's babies may have been different but this was certainly true of mine.

You might not like this but I sleep trained with controlled crying and night weaned at 9 months. Children are perfectly attached to us and very happy. I'm a big fan of this method to help children sleep through.

Around 2 when they moved into beds we did a sticker chart to get them to stay in bed. Worked first night for both of them.

If you work 60 hour weeks she may just be "telling" you she needs this time with you. She may actually need you more emotionally than she did 6 months ago. So maybe it would be best to make cosleeping work.

I co-slept for longer than you did, op, and we always slept well. I also didn't put mine to bed very early and never when still awake.

You do need your sleep and anything that makes it easier is worth trying.

Can you afford to consult a reputable sleep consultant? We worked with Nicola at Child Sleep Solutions - she’s a miracle worker!

We did gentle controlled crying with our 7 month old, and it was a lifesaver. She works with older children too, so I’d really recommend her.

I guess you have to not give her milk and take her in with you at midnight. She might cry a little and then go back to sleep, I doubt she will be scarred for life. At 20 months I’d be hoping for a longer nap, 2 hours at least. Bed at 7pm. If you feel you can’t leave her have a mattress in her room and sleep there till she falls asleep, that way she is staying in her cot and isn’t getting used to going in your bed all the time. You need your sleep and it is pretty possible to have a 20month old who sleeps in their own room through the night. I wouldn’t get a wink if I co slept, can’t think of anything worse!

I think she is slipping back into the co sleeping, but that's not working for you.

You know she can sleep in her own bed, so I think your will need to take her back if she wakes. I would go in when she cries and comfort her, but return her to her cot. No night feeding. You don't need to leave her to cry, you could try lying her down and leave a hand on her till she falls asleep, or you could go out of the room and come back after a minute/2 minutes etc and reassure her that you are here. No night feeding

After a couple of nights you should see an improvement in her ability to sleep on her own. You really want it cracked before she can get out of bed on her own!

I think you'll get some good responses to this on The Beyond Sleep Training Project Facebook group as going by what you've done so far I'm going to assume sleep training isn't your bag.

Should have read @Outfoxedbyrabbits reply first! I agree with what she's said - this sounds entirely normal but appreciate it's difficult.

My son had one feed every night & went back into his cot and slept, from about 9 until 20 months. I thought he was a good sleeper - but it was "baby" sleep. waking every couple of sleep cycles, wanting to be picked up & held. The milk waking started getting earlier and earlier in the night and then he'd be up, wanting to play, cuddle etc.

I didn't want to do it but I did some sleep training. I knew he could understand my words and it felt OK to tell him he needed to stay in his cot and mummy was just outside in her bed in the next room. His screams were angry (like I don't wanna go in my car seat/I want ten biscuits kind of thing) not abandoned and scared. We just stopped night feeding and rode out the tantrum. Milk in the morning, sleep time now, lie down. Very simple instructions. I came in after 1 min, cuddle and resettle, then after 2 mins, never going away longer than 10 mins and just rinse and repeat. He did fall asleep it took 3 nights.

His sleep has been much more solid and less restless. He seems less "on alert" in the night and easily soothed. He stays in his bed.

She’s almost 2 years old? Personally I would stop the breastfeeding completely, put her to bed in her own room and consider a bed rather than a cot. Leave a cup of water with her so that if she’s thirsty she can have a drink.
It’s ok to sleep train, all mine needed various degrees of it and thankfully they got the hang of it very quickly. Nights should be boring, quiet and without reward (drinks etc) because they and you need to sleep.