To expect my DH to participate in family activities?

[ElfinsMum]

My DH has moderate depression/anxiety which he is fairly effectively managing at the moment with anti depressants and CBT. He is functioning close to normal at work, with chores and on his own hobbies (yeah, one of them is cycling!), with only occasional meh days when he will take extra breaks e.g. naps or meditation.

However, I still find myself doing a lot of single parenting when it comes to family activities. He pretty much always says no to weekend beach, park, hikes etc. He stays at home doing chores or solitary hobbies that he prefers to do without kids.

I haven't been able to book a holiday because I can't get him to agree to anything. The other day he told me all the places I pick are "so weird". (I am only trying to book a week self catering that doesn't require a second mortgage.... honestly not weird. And we used to travel a lot before kids in UK and elsewhere and never had issues agreeing)

If I do manage to persuade him to come - by planning well ahead, guilt tripping him that kids need him there, then putting my foot down on the day, usually - he attends with bad grace, makes it no fun for any of us and quite often demands to go home early/suddenly. If we are out with friends, he does the same and it is often super awkward.

Yesterday evening, we had a family milestone event, a formal event like say a christening but in our culture. He was SO weird. He went and sat separately from me and the kids and our guests. I had to basically have a hissed argument with him in front of kids and guests to come and sit with us like a normal bloody family. Before the ceremony, we bumped into some school parents: the dad tried to make polite chat, DH was really brusque and clunky, even lied saying he wasn't into something he actually loves. We're all like . Then for most of the ceremony, he got up and took our toddler away to the side of the room (she was pretty restless tbh) where I couldn't even see them. Then when it came to the part of the ceremony where we had to say our "lines" he stayed almost out of view and didn't seem to be moving his lips hardly at all. Same with the singing (he does hate singing...I'd have been more surprised to see him belting it out tbf!!)

Now, ok, I am more into this ceremony than he is obviously. And I am probably more naturally into planning and doing weekend family trips. But he does agree in principle that he wants our kids to have these experiences. So, AIBU to expect him to do these things with a good grace because they are part of caring for the kids and supporting me? Or should I just try to accept him as he is and organise to do "family" stuff with others?

I assume he doesn't want to do all the "fun" stuff which isn't "fun" at all for him. I'd hate to be told to had to go to the beach too. Would much rather go cycling. Hiking - well not sure with a toddler.

I doubt it's anything to do with depression. You just want to spend your time doing different things and you'll need to come to terms with that and whether you want to grow old together.

His behaviour at the "ceremony" sounds a bit odd but maybe he really didn't want to be there. Yes sometimes you have to suck things up but you don't have to like it and that could be more to do with his depression.

@ElfinsMum

Thanks *@PlanDeRaccordement*, that was hard to read but genuinely helpful information re red flags.

Thank you. My DH has depression and has been on medication for almost twenty years. During our 27yr marriage he has had three relapses into severe depression where he had to go inpatient due to suicide risk for a bit and then intensive one on one therapy for months afterwards. He is very difficult to live with when depressed. I understand how you feel, it’s demoralising, exhausting, makes you want to scream. I only get through it by depersonalising it and telling myself it is his sickness, not him and then doing what I can to get the professionals to do their job as soon as possible to get my DH back to the man he really is inside. I’m not a therapist. I can’t fix him. But he can be too ill to know how bad he is or arrange his own psychiatric care...that’s where I give a helping hand. And he does get better and is a joy to be around.

I think sticking with him at least for a reasonable time sends a powerful message to children about love and support for a family member struggling with their MH. I did always tell the children when he wasn’t well in age appropriate ways so they did not feel rejected when he just couldn’t play with them or do family things. Three are adults now and it’s also made them aware of friends MH and their MH and how to seek help without stigma.

I am a husband and dad in a similar situation to your husband. I have had bouts of depression since I was a kid and have learned to mask it as much as possible over the years. I also suspect I am ASD too for various reasons, currently on the waiting list for a diagnosis. I have spent all my life masking that too. Last year I also had a bit of a work shock, which threw me right off balance, plus a midlife crisis of sorts, during which I began to suspect ASD.

I have good days and bad days. My concentration levels are shot to bits. I no longer have the patience to mask depression and ASD, it’s exhausting and draining. I am permanently tired, need daily naps - sometimes more than once in a day. Work meetings wear me out completely, but I do spend a lot of time working - it distracts me and gives me a bit of human contact outside of the family (I have no friends or social life).

Social events need a lot of effort from me, to mask and appear interested, and to tolerate having people around me. I can’t wait to leave and be in peace again.

I have 2 kids, and try as much as possible to do things with them. Sometimes it’s not possible, when I have no energy at all, when my patience levels are shot. And I know how to mask this stuff, I’ve been doing it since I was 13. Sometimes I have to leave the room and go somewhere quiet, when they’re watching cartoons or youtube kids videos - if I’m not in a good place I can’t bear the noises.

My wife is amazing and seems to understand me thankfully. She gives me space when I’m not in a good way (especially mornings). I try as much as possible to contribute, I prioritise work as I am the main earner by a long way, and I genuinely enjoy what I do. I want to work hard and try to retire as early as possible. Sometimes I don’t want any contact with anyone, don’t want to go out, just want to be buried under ground in a pod and not feel anything. It’s not laziness, it’s just how I feel, and it’s pervasive and invasive. I’m on SSRIs which make the sleepiness much worse, I lost motivation to run as I have nobody to run with but can’t face joining a club.

From this perspective I really cannot stress enough that the “LTB” responses are horrible. Poor guy is probably in a worse place than he lets on, and would benefit from the situation being discussed openly and recognised as something he is suffering from, not “inventing” as some have suggested. I really feel for you and him, and I hope that you two can work through it over time and find a way to live with his condition and treat it so he finds a happier way to be.

Oh..another one. Depressed but can manage to work, keep up with and enjoy hobbies - but can't be asked with his wife, can't be asked to parent his children.

It's all about what he wants to do and what suits him - he's not isolating from or struggling with that, is he?

But you're struggling to cope with his disinterest and I bet your kids notice dad's not interested in them, too. How do they feel?

I wouldn't stay married to someone like that, not in this 1 short life they wouldn't get my years to waste . But you could get him back to GP if that's possible.

I suspect following that he'd carry on as before and if you ever mentioned leaving he'd massively guilt trip you into not leaving.

What's the point of him?

From this perspective I really cannot stress enough that the “LTB” responses are horrible. Poor guy is probably in a worse place than he lets on, and would benefit from the situation being discussed openly and recognised as something he is suffering from, not “inventing” as some have suggested. I really feel for you and him, and I hope that you two can work through it over time and find a way to live with his condition and treat it so he finds a happier way to be

I'm.sorry fir what you are going through but LTB isn't as harsh as it sounds tbh. What about her? Why is a husbands " right" to be supported more important than her right to walk away from a situation that's causing her equal stress? There are 2 people here and one is being asked to do the thinking and planning for the child(ren) and the husband while the husband has the luxury of only pleasing himself and being able to make her feel guilty for wanting to feel part of a family fir a change.

She shouldn't have to solve it all for him on top of the having to do everything for the kids as well as herself.

People really do need to help themselves and if they don't then its ok to walk away .

I’m always sympathetic to people with mental illness issues. However, I had PND and it just wasn’t an option to opt out of family life. I just had to find a way to get on with it, and find other ways to cope.

My ex opted out a lot because he was depressed, and drank too much. That was a miserable experience. It was weird that he got to opt out and I never when I had PND. I do think men think it’s ok to opt out because the woman will pick up the pieces.

He’s a parent. There are a lot of us that parent with mental health issues, and as much as you can’t pour from an empty jug, at some point the kids should come first. Doesn’t seem like they are currently.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

The problem with this approach, as a PP has suggested, is that this guarantees that the impact of the depression becomes the problem of the entire family, as opposed to just one person,

I am sure major depression is debilitating and awful. But it does have a habit of making solipsistic, selfish and insular.

It’s one thing to be understanding and supportive but it’s quite another when the whole family is expected to kowtow to this.

It’s also noticeable that this bloke is apparently able to pull himself out of it when he’s cycling or working.

My ex also suffered major depression and i was expected endlessly to “support”, in practice meaning never doing anything at weekends, having to do all the childcare because he was spending hours lying in bed feeling sorry for himself anc having to put up with verbal abuse.

There comes a point where “support” tips over into “enabling”.

@DeeCeeCherry
Oh..another one. Depressed but can manage to work, keep up with and enjoy hobbies - but can't be asked with his wife, can't be asked to parent his children. It's all about what he wants to do and what suits him - he's not isolating from or struggling with that, is he?

Trust me, no one wants to be depressed. No one really enjoys even hobbies when depressed, and OPs DH hobby is actually exercise which is prescribed for depressed people to do as part of therapy because it might help. And managing to work doesn’t mean you aren’t severely depressed. After all, depressed people (mostly men) jump in front of trains on the way to work fairly regularly. And their coworkers often say they never saw it coming, he was well liked, etc. Because men are known for masking their depression.

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

However, I had PND and it just wasn’t an option to opt out of family life. I just had to find a way to get on with it, and find other ways to cope.

Presumably you were on maternity leave so masked the depression to care for your baby, you didn’t work FT as well. Similarly, OPs DH is sole earner, he can’t opt out of work, so he has to get on with it. However, he’s not the primary carer of the children too as OP is on mat leave, so all his energy is used up getting on with work and nothing left for family.

Why is a husbands " right" to be supported more important than her right to walk away from a situation that's causing her equal stress?

Im sorry but living with a depressed person is not equal stress to actually being depressed. And when you marry someone you commit to being there for them in sickness and in health. So to simply walk away as soon as someone is seriously ill and it affects you is shit. It’s no different from walking away from a spouse the day they are diagnosed with cancer...because “it stresses me too”. Of course it stresses you too, but to say it is equal to the person battling the illness is just plain wrong.

If the OP found she couldn't cope and needed to walk away for her own and DC health and well-being there would be no shame, nor should there be any blame, in that. She clearly would not be doing so as soon as he became unwell and it is totally unfair to insinuate that she would.

I do think men think it’s ok to opt out because the woman will pick up the pieces.

I agree with this. I do have sympathy for people with long-term depression. But women just don't get to opt out of family life. It's non negotiable for them.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Why is a husbands " right" to be supported more important than her right to walk away from a situation that's causing her equal stress?

Im sorry but living with a depressed person is not equal stress to actually being depressed. And when you marry someone you commit to being there for them in sickness and in health. So to simply walk away as soon as someone is seriously ill and it affects you is shit. It’s no different from walking away from a spouse the day they are diagnosed with cancer...because “it stresses me too”. Of course it stresses you too, but to say it is equal to the person battling the illness is just plain wrong.

Do you mean walk away from your spouse with cancer years after diagnosis when they refuse to go to a gp despite obvious signs then on top of this they save all their strength for work, extensive hobbies, oh and Friday night drinks? But is an asshole if they have to do anything with their family?? Never met or heard of a cancer patient like this, and can easily see ending a marriage to one if they did exist.

@PlanDeRaccordement

However, I had PND and it just wasn’t an option to opt out of family life. I just had to find a way to get on with it, and find other ways to cope.

Presumably you were on maternity leave so masked the depression to care for your baby, you didn’t work FT as well. Similarly, OPs DH is sole earner, he can’t opt out of work, so he has to get on with it. However, he’s not the primary carer of the children too as OP is on mat leave, so all his energy is used up getting on with work and nothing left for family.

It’s not, he also has considerable energy for hobbies. And can do drinks with mates. Just not family.

Yy time

I dont care if my xp is depressed or not tbh. I dont feel remotely guilty fir walking away. He snored badly. Drinking made it worse but he wouldn't give it up so he slept on the sofa instead. For years. His job and hobby meant I couldn't even wash his clothes with mine and the kids. I couldn't rely on him.at all to look after the kids. They had a dad yet even time I wanted to go out or so something it was just far easier ti ask my parents to baby sit than him to give up his hobby for a day.

In several months of lockdown he didnt once come out for a walk. He wouldn't leave the computer screen.

There were no excuses then . No "it takes all his energy for work" no "its so much harder for him" no attention ors at earlier nights ir fresh air or quitting smoking or drinking to improve his health and well being.

Lime onsaid I don't know if he was depressed or not frankly it's not my problem. I don't care. Sticking around when you are miserable and making excuses and putting yourself last all the time is not a message I want my kids to take home. In fact one wants little to do with him now tbh. She got fed up waiting for him.to show an interest. If you think she's cruel I don't care. It was all his choice. He could have chosen help and health. He didn't. So I chose to end it.

Sounds like a really intolerable situation. I don't really understand why he chose to have 3 children though, was this social pressure do you think? Some men (and women) are just not interested in family life, if he is one of those people he was utterly selfish to have had a family with someone, depression or not.

Thank you everyone for your comments.

The thread looks a lot like the wrestle that goes on day in day out inside my own head. Who's needs should I put first? I am afraid that ultimately, if my DH's mental health remains bad or gets worse from here (and it has been this level or worse for over five years, which is why I said in the OP that he is pretty good right now), I will be forced to choose between the needs of my children and the needs of my husband.
H

Focus on your own needs, OP. You’ve not even mentioned them, and no one else is going to prioritise you. Good luck.