To expect my DH to participate in family activities?

[ElfinsMum]

My DH has moderate depression/anxiety which he is fairly effectively managing at the moment with anti depressants and CBT. He is functioning close to normal at work, with chores and on his own hobbies (yeah, one of them is cycling!), with only occasional meh days when he will take extra breaks e.g. naps or meditation.

However, I still find myself doing a lot of single parenting when it comes to family activities. He pretty much always says no to weekend beach, park, hikes etc. He stays at home doing chores or solitary hobbies that he prefers to do without kids.

I haven't been able to book a holiday because I can't get him to agree to anything. The other day he told me all the places I pick are "so weird". (I am only trying to book a week self catering that doesn't require a second mortgage.... honestly not weird. And we used to travel a lot before kids in UK and elsewhere and never had issues agreeing)

If I do manage to persuade him to come - by planning well ahead, guilt tripping him that kids need him there, then putting my foot down on the day, usually - he attends with bad grace, makes it no fun for any of us and quite often demands to go home early/suddenly. If we are out with friends, he does the same and it is often super awkward.

Yesterday evening, we had a family milestone event, a formal event like say a christening but in our culture. He was SO weird. He went and sat separately from me and the kids and our guests. I had to basically have a hissed argument with him in front of kids and guests to come and sit with us like a normal bloody family. Before the ceremony, we bumped into some school parents: the dad tried to make polite chat, DH was really brusque and clunky, even lied saying he wasn't into something he actually loves. We're all like . Then for most of the ceremony, he got up and took our toddler away to the side of the room (she was pretty restless tbh) where I couldn't even see them. Then when it came to the part of the ceremony where we had to say our "lines" he stayed almost out of view and didn't seem to be moving his lips hardly at all. Same with the singing (he does hate singing...I'd have been more surprised to see him belting it out tbf!!)

Now, ok, I am more into this ceremony than he is obviously. And I am probably more naturally into planning and doing weekend family trips. But he does agree in principle that he wants our kids to have these experiences. So, AIBU to expect him to do these things with a good grace because they are part of caring for the kids and supporting me? Or should I just try to accept him as he is and organise to do "family" stuff with others?

10cola I 100% agree with you that a marriage requires work, and I am enormously sympathetic to the way depression affects your life - although my last post didn’t sound it, I guess. I think you are amazing to cope with the demands of being a single parent and work whilst also suffering.

I think that’s why this attitude displayed by the OP’s husband feels so particularly awful - it is hard for someone in the thick of it to see how it affects others but it does - it really does and if the person can’t take that on board and make steps to try to mitigate it then they might actually be better living alone and cycling/handling chores/working on their mental health in a way that works for them rather than expecting family life to revolve around their issues. There’s empathy and compassion, and then there’s being taken for granted and not asserting ones own needs and advocating for children. It’s very hard all round.

@10ColaBottles Thank you for your perspective as a depression sufferer. I agree with much of what you say, including that our marriage of nearly 15 years is worth working at and that it should be strong enough to support either of us through periods of illness, including mental.

Your hunch that he is prioritising work is correct. Last year he was managed out of a long held role due to under performance. I had just had DC3 (and given up our main income to go on mat leave) and it was the scariest, shittiest thing for all of us. He has been working FT since March for the first time in years.

In general, working FT and being the sole earner again has seemed to suit him. He has more purpose. But I think his energy is slowly running down.

And yes, he would definitely argue that he needs his three solo hobbies to stay sane. But to me it looks more like he's hiding in them.

Bahahaha @babdoc, if he didn't want photos on social media with me, there most definitely are: there was a professional photographer at the event for exactly that purpose!!

I note everyone using the phrase "checked out" though. I think I will raise it with him and see what he says.

But he does agree in principle that he wants our kids to have these experiences.

I think this is important. He wants his kids to do these things, so he needs to pull his share of the weight in making that happen.

Maybe his illness means he can't do it in the same way that you can, but he needs to figure out how he can contribute and not just leave the whole burden up to you.

Just sending virtual hugs. My OH is the same and has depression. It is really, really draining.

He had a hobby too that takes one day every weekend, and when I asked him to stop it when DD was a baby, his depression got so much worse so I resigned myself to not seeing him on a Saturday. He also has two hobbies around the house that he does in a Sunday.

He finds spending time with the kids difficult as they're too loud and "don't listen to him" so I do almost everything with them, bar the odd bedtime. He hasn't done any play dates or parties with them. He is socially awkward around my friends, which comes across as rude, when we're invited to others, so invitations are dwindling and I just don't bother inviting anyone to ours anymore. And he will not go on a family holiday as it's, "just the same s**t in another location" so I'm thinking of planning one without him next year.

He is on meds but it took three years to get him to go to the GP, with a handhold from me, and trying to get him to go back hasn't worked yet.

He is so negative and irritable too. It is so, so hard. And I struggle sometimes not to be sucked down into the negativity with him. So I hear you. And I'm just sending a first pump of solidarity.

I'm sticking because I promised "in sickness and health" and I don't want to teach my kids that you give up on family members when they're ill. Also I know it's just his depression and not him. But, man, I dream of a happy family life.

I think look historically what he was like.

its no way to continnue but he may feel he needs to finacially support more than be there.

It does sound like he is tryinig , he isn't sitting around whilst you are out but doing chores.

Emotionally though yours and the kids needs aren't been met and this is the conversation that needs to be had

@RocksOnTheHill Your post brought tears to my eyes. Your summary of how your husband feels about family life could exactly be my husband.

This is absolutely not how I thought he would be as a dad. My FIL is really a very kind, lovely dad - that seemed like such an important validation to me when I first met DH.

I shit you not people: he has told his work colleagues about our family milestone and they have now organised celebration drinks for tonight. I am "not to hold dinner".

Or our favourite family Fri night TV. Or bath time. Or bed time. Probably.

I mean I want him to have friends at work, but what family guy can/would just go for Fri night drinks on a whim?

So he can do social stuff with work but not with family?

So he used to work part-time, is that right? Then he was ‘managed out’ and now is FT, you’re at home with the baby, and he’s checked out of family life?

What was it like before you had a third child, when he worked less and you were the higher earner? Did he still leave you to the organising and stuff, but you felt he deserved more time away from the family as he did more with the DC at that point?

What are the plans for you to return to work or not?

Dynamics shifting are hard, job loss and depression are hard, marriage and parenting are hard. But how is communication between you?

It might help to have very realistic expectations of what he will engage with so you aren't (understandably) so frustrated. Accept he isn't able, or isn't willing, to do fun times out with you at the moment.

So rather than plan a trip or outing and then let it be vetoed or held hostage on the day by his mood, plan something for you and the kids and just go.

With or without him. Say he's welcome to come or not come. Keep it neutral. If he comes and ruins the whole thing, plan something else and say this time you'll go by yourself with the kids.

Plan a trip with a friend and their kids. Just take back some of the control so you aren't so entwined with his moods. Hopefully it'll help him to keep addressing the depression so he can be part of it all again happily. Or it'll show you that another road is better for you all.

But you'll be able to be lighter and freer to look forward to things without the constant uncertainty.

This isn’t fair. Yes, he is ill, but he gets to behave just as he pleases, and you get the crumbs. It’s no way to live.

This is part of the reason I split up with my xp. Got sick of his contribution being merely to throw money at me ( I have my own I work) and it seemingly absolving him of ever having to do anything else.

Irs much easier alone

It doesn't sound like his bond with his dc is great. I would say he needs to spend more time with them to build it up. But you can't make him if he doesn't want to be a part of your family.

I'd suggest family therapy if he is willing, but I suspect he just wants to opt out of family life instead. I wouldn't want to live like that, I don't think you should have to.

My partner is a good Dad at home but won’t do any family activities outside the home nor go on holiday. I gave up trying to convince him a long time ago and just enjoy all these experiences with my DD on my own. He also suffers from anxiety and phobias. I have talked to him about going to the doctor but he buries his head in the sand. I won’t let my DD miss out so just organise everything for us. He doesn’t mind. I actually find trips and days out quite stress free without another adult in the mix.

He finds spending time with the kids difficult as they're too loud and "don't listen to him" so I do almost everything with them, bar the odd bedtime

Sorry but that’s disgusting behaviour from a father. They’re too loud? Well why the fuck did he have more than one then? Women don’t get to opt out of parenting because it’s hard, so why does he think he can?

I feel sorry for kids living with fathers who make it clear they have no interest, I think that’s far, far more damaging than divorce.

Because I wanted my DS to have a sibling

[quote ElfinsMum]@RocksOnTheHill Your post brought tears to my eyes. Your summary of how your husband feels about family life could exactly be my husband.

This is absolutely not how I thought he would be as a dad. My FIL is really a very kind, lovely dad - that seemed like such an important validation to me when I first met DH.[/quote]
I'm sorry if I made you upset. I know what you mean. I never envisaged my DH would behave like this post kids.

I realise I'm being unkind, my DH does do stuff besides bedtime with the kids at home. But not out and about. Like, he will build a den with them or read them a story. But day trips out he finds really stressful. He does not want us to have family holidays. He does not want to engage with other kids or other adults.

And he cannot stand the kids being loud, badly behaved or having tantrums.

I agree, planning days out without including DH, helps. A part of me wishes he would come and we'd just have fun as a family, but if I face reality, even if he did agree to come, he'd just be stressed and on a downer.

Organising outings with other friends helps too.

I think his depression/anxiety is not well managed. He’s the sole earner so is under pressure to mask the depression/anxiety so as not to lose his job again and leave all of you struggling financially. So of course he is going to put most of his energy towards supporting his family and that includes work social things which aren’t really optional.

His hobby of cycling is really exercise, which is recommended to help fight depression/anxiety so I’d encourage he keep that up.

His mask slips around you and family which is why he is being such a turd. I do think you are making him worse though by guilt tripping him, and expecting him to “act normal” during family time/activities. I am sure being depressed, he feels bad enough as is without you making him feel like the worst father on the planet. I would take the pressure off for now and actively focus on helping him get better. Forcing him to go makes him worse and as you say it ruins it for everyone else too.

Instead, get him back to the doctor, you can also call and outline your concerns. Self-isolation in which people withdraw from and emotionally distance themselves from their loved ones is a common red flag for suicidal ideation and behaviour. This is what he is doing by refusing to do family activities. He is isolating himself.

I'm sticking because I promised "in sickness and health" and I don't want to teach my kids that you give up on family members when they're ill. Also I know it's just his depression and not him. But, man, I dream of a happy family life.

I can understand your thoughts here but reading your description of your husband as a father, you might want to think seriously about what you ARE teaching your children about how families and relationships work.

@NoSquirrels It's been complicated for the last year or so, but yes, you've guessed about right. He took some time out to decompress after the stressful exit, then found a new role fairly easily. I took an additional six months leave to support him settling in.

Now I am a couple of weeks away from returning three days per week. Aim is to get to both 4 days per week in six months or so.

The family days, he should do, he is bowing out of family life/can’t be bothered?

The baptism thingy, sounds like anxiety/depression, like he is struggling.

You need to decide what your prepared to live like and take action.

Thanks @PlanDeRaccordement, that was hard to read but genuinely helpful information re red flags.

Thanks for helping everyone. I'm in Australia so I'll be offline for the next few hours. See you tomorrow

Thing that would be the nail in coffin for me, is how he is quite happy to go to a work do, but not the same effort or energy put into home. Would he behave poorly whilst doing his hobbies?

I could hang in there if it was a blanket behaviour and everything was affected. But sounds like he’s ok as long as it isn’t to do with family stuff.