How long would you HOPE it would take for 999 ambulance call takers to answer the phone?

[nevereveragainneverever]

For many years I’ve had a recurring nightmare where something bad happens in the dream and I need to call an ambulance - but in my nightmare I get put on hold for ages while waiting for the ambulance service to pick up the phone.

Last night my nightmare came true.

I had to call 999 at 4.30am after getting some stern advice from my designated medical helpline to do so.

The 999 person asks which service I require. “Ambulance”, says I.

She tried to put me through but then said they were very busy ....and I was being placed on hold for the next available operator.

Now here's the thing; if you had a loved one who was seriously ill or injured / having a cardiac arrest / a child who was choking / not breathing etc - how long do you think you would reasonably have to be on hold to get the ambulance service to actually take your call so you could tell them about it?

I honestly thought it would be 20-30 seconds. After all they had no idea what I was calling about and whether someone was in grave danger.

Well….it was SIX AND A HALF MINUTES!!!!! 😩😠😲. On hold!!!! Before they even picked up the phone to ask if the patient was breathing!!

I am still so shocked by this. I’m NOT blaming them - that's not the point of this thread: they’re just so busy, I think understaffed by Covid and other issues and underfunding .

The 999 ambulance call handler took note of my symptoms and said it was a priority case due to chest pain, issues breathing, worrying oxygen sats, other symptoms.. and my underlying serious medical condition (cancer patient on chemotherapy, subsequently admitted to hospital).

The ambulance then took 2.5 hours to arrive!! On a priority call!

Again, I’m NOT blaming them; they had been delayed because they were flagged down in the road when en route to me by desperate parents whose child was sick…and whose own ambulance was delayed. It transpired that the ambulance they should have got had been commandeered by an aggressive, drunk 25 year old man who was demanding a trip to hospital by ambulance for his injured fist - that he got by punching a wall.

You couldn’t make it up! The crew did the right thing in stopping for the child in my view and again I'm not blaming the crew (who were fabulous) and who explained they have only had a total of ten minutes at base - in the last six months! The rest of the time it’s call out after call out - and he said it’s so often time wasters.

I despair. And thought you would like to know. I don't know what the solution is, but wanted to share my experience.

Rant over. Thank you for listening.

Near me there are several of the fast response cars who are obviously dispatched fastly. I know they take patients to hospital particularly when known the condition of the patient etc.

I also can't imagine the sights that ambulance crew have seen and knowing what is happening would obviously have such a horrendous impact on them not being able to get to the next seriously unwell person.

It is completely scary especially thinking of children who urgently need treatment and also anyone where it is life or death or left in agonising pain waiting.

@I'mSoMagical I am so sorry. That is beyond words. This is all so wrong and broken. Someone left lying on the street is really distressing and the impact it would have had on her particularly with people going by would be so nasty. I hope her recovery has been going smoothly as possible.

@RandomLondoner

I think a £40 charge for each GP visit and an £300 charge for each ambulance call-out would sort out a lot of problems.

These costs are within the scale of what most people have to cope with in every day life, most people have no need for these expenses to be covered by any kind of insurance, social or private. But for responsible people (non time-wasters) on low incomes private insurance to cover these bills would probably only cost a few pounds a month.

We have a two tier system here in Ireland. Below a certain income and retired etc pay. The poor etc have a Medical Card and do not pay.

The first time I had to go to A and E .. in my car...I saw the sign telling that there was an instant charge of Ea hundred for being there; and a week later as they had not caught up with the paperwork I got a bill of the same from the ambulance folk.
A GP visit costs I think E sixty and prescriptions are not free. We old wans etc pay a token one E for meds and nothing else,

Your second paragraph beggars belief. As here there would have to be exemptions. making ends meet for so many folk is a daily battle. Old folk dying of hypothermia … and so many relying on food banks etc.

People use 999 as some sort of personal service, it's awful. Had to call an ambulance for my mum last year and the crew told me 1 guy had called 6 times in 4 days for a common cold!!! Shockingly stupid waste of time, money and effort!!

I went to A&E as I was bleeding during an early pregnancy in the hope they would at least give a scan. 4 hours in the waiting room with people complaining how long they'd be there for. 1 guy seemed fine, saw the doctor a total of 2 minutes and as they were leaving the room together I heard the Dr saying see your GP!!! So surely what ever was wrong with this guy could have waited for an appointment with a GP rather than going to A&E??

I went to A&E once for turned out to be bladder stones, worst pain ever, I felt sick, couldn't stand, sit, felt like I was going throw up and shit myself all at once, never felt anything like it before and I was terrified and on my own. I told the receptionist that I just needed to go to the loo and if i was called, could she please let the Dr know I was in the loo so as not to miss out. She told me that if I continued to be 'disruptive' then she would have me removed from the waiting area..... bet if I was pissed as fart on a Friday night, she wouldn't have said that!!

There is absolutely no way that that system would work. It would mean so many people are basically left with no choice but to remain where they are in absolute agony and deaths will rocket as a result. Deaths that would be entirely preventable if they had been able to see a medical professional and/or taken to hospital when needed.

Kids would also be left and you can guarantee that drug use would go up as well for people to try and get through some pain so no doubt overdoses also. And suicides with regards to chronic pain sufferers who are already suffering badly financially as it is due to being in the chronic pain categary. Suicide levels already high in that group.

There is no way that any private health insurance companies would only take a few pounds a month from lower income families/person. That will not make them any profit at all therefore won't happen.

If someone has several health conditions you can guarantee that it would be expensive the same as if someone had a terminal condition or a life limiting one.

Also for so many people every last penny counts. And that is with proper budgeting skills. Before anyone immediately pounces and claims some need to learn how to budget better! Some people are living hand to mouth and have hard choices to make such as food for themselves or their child and also similar with gas and electric meters.

People should not be made to pay the price for what so many years of neglect has managed to do with a pandemic thrown in on top. Also if that ever started then you can guarantee that once the hooks were in then several other procedures/meds etc would then have to be paid for and once it is started there won't be any reversal.

If you watch Ambulance regularly you will see why the ambulance service is over stretched other than the blindingly obvious underfunding by the tories.

1. People calling for an ambulance for things that probably don't even need a plaster.
2. Calling for an ambulance when they are perfectly capable of getting to the hospital themselves.
3. Having to act as a mental health crisis team in lieu of an actual MHCT
4. Drug/drink abuse
5. Prank calls.

This list could be longer but generally covers it.
Ambulances are for emergencies like heart attacks, serious injury, urgent breathing issues etc.

Yes we definitely need a lot more funding and support for paramedics and ambulance teams/call takers but we also need a lot more people taking some personal responsibility.

I forgot one, the queue at the hospital to get the patients off the ambulances. they sit there unable to go anywhere until the patient is unloaded but that one probably comes back to the NHS funding.

@JustHereWithMyPopcorn I agree about the blatant misuse of such an important service but with regards to mental health issues a lot of the time there isn't anything else some people can do.

The mental health services are not up to scratch at all particularly in certain areas and a lot do try to make contact only to be greeted by an answer phone message. When someone is in a crisis situation or a family member is in one then they have to do something. Also a lot are actually told to go to hospital. If they're not capable of getting there and if someone is that far into the crisis mode then a taxi wouldn't be the correct vehicle to transport them and also the driver would very likely refuse to take them.

Mental health sector really needs work also. The fact that there is the duty psychiatrist there throughout the night is sometimes the only way someone can access some help.

I really have no time for the people who have chosen to overindulge in alcohol and then end up taking a tumble etc or the ones who get aggressive and mouthy etc and require a lot of time to actually get in if they require hospital.

Some people will always call one or attempt to for very minor things. I cannot see that changing. Same as people who view as a form of transport... which I can never understand as I would be mortified to take up time like that. Some people just aren't capable of thinking about others at all.

In some areas the paramedics in fast response cars used to stop the 'time of attendance clock' at RTAs have resorted to asking the fires service, once they have cut them free, to leave them in the car as it becomes obvious to by standers just how shit the service is when they have lay them on a grass verge in the rain and wait 15 minutes for the full size ambulance that will transport them to hospital.

@JustHereWithMyPopcorn

I forgot one, the queue at the hospital to get the patients off the ambulances. they sit there unable to go anywhere until the patient is unloaded but that one probably comes back to the NHS funding.

This is the real reason and problem.

Yes we have time wasters and a small number of them know what words to say to trigger a high priority response, but for the rest we have awesome control room paramedics, nurses and advanced practitioners on a clinical support desk, who filter many of them lower acuity calls (and the high acuity calls during crisis times like now). We also have very skilled and experienced paramedics on ambulances and cars who discharge patients at scene, refer patients back to their own GP, or send patients into hospital via non ambulance (own car, taxi) transport.

But none of this matters if all our ambulances are parked outside hospital for hours on end, 4 or 5 hours is 'normal' where I work, it is not uncommon to talk to colleagues who have cared for patients who have waited 12 hours on an ambulance and in extreme cases 23 hours!!

In our case the two ambulances that we have had were for the children and were triggered by a 111 call. So even though we were insisting that we could make our way to A&E, the 111 call handler dispatched an ambulance anyway! Tbh I have never rung 111 again as I find it is not fit for purpose.

@ toystoyseverywhere I agree with you 100%, apologies if that didn’t come across clearly. They are doing a job they shouldn’t have to do because there isn’t the funding for the people whose job it is.

Suggesting charging people to stop them from reaching help unnecessarily is a horrible thing to say. Many people would seek help too late out fear if they can’t afford it. Many people call emergency services when they shouldn’t because the system is broken and they are left terrified and with no options. The answer is NEVER blaming the public, but the people who manage the resources and they do a shit job at it. I come from a European country and the way things work here is scary, and the solution blaming people! I would leave if I could just for the health care failures.

@RandomLondoner

I think a £40 charge for each GP visit and an £300 charge for each ambulance call-out would sort out a lot of problems.

These costs are within the scale of what most people have to cope with in every day life, most people have no need for these expenses to be covered by any kind of insurance, social or private. But for responsible people (non time-wasters) on low incomes private insurance to cover these bills would probably only cost a few pounds a month.

£300 for an ambulance? I'd have died in my early 20s if that was the rule.

But at least you and your other out-of-touch friends would get seen quicker. Who cares if the rest of us all drop dead.

I live in a country where there is a charge for the ambulance service - unless the reason it is called comes under an accident (which includes a fall) and if people need an ambulance they call for one - I doubt the thought of the charge ever enters their mind. You can pay a yearly subscription and get the call-outs free. However I can assure people are not dying in droves because they don't call for help - and it doesn't need to be a life threatening emergency to get that help.

One time at work we had an elderly lady, who collapsed with what looked like a stroke. Mid-week, part way through the morning. You wouldn't have expected it to be a busy time.

I called 999 three times-the first two I got the message "We have unprecedented demand, please call back later", then the phone went dead.
Third time I got through, was told that they would send an urgent ambulance. Urgent, in this case, meant that there would only be a 2-3 hour wait, as she was conscious.
We took her in a car.

Now it was a situation I could stay calm in. It wasn't someone I knew, so I didn't have the personal emotion. Others, better trained in first aid than me, were with her. the only thing I had to do was call the ambulance.

But it was very scary to think that we couldn't even get through in an emergency. What it would have been like if you were in a situation that really needed immediate assistance I can't even begin to imagine.

That’s scary. We once waited with a lady who’d fallen off her mobility scooter and hurt herself and the ambulance was about an hour.

To be fair, they’ve been fab with me before. When I once had multiple seizures at home, DH said they were there in under 6 minutes. Once they’d hauled me into the ambulance (literally, apparently I didn’t want to go!) they then drove to the hospital before stopping half way on a major roundabout in our city and calling for a backup crew and the police to divert traffic as they couldn’t get the seizures under control. DH said he was shitting himself, I of
Course was oblivious and was most surprised to wake up in hospital 5 hours later.

[quote Neenaw999]@EgonSpengler2020 in terms of honesty we have a fairly recent policy whereby the script for the calltakers changes dependent on how many patients we have waiting, so for example for a cat 3 call they will say we aim to have an ambulance with you within 1 hour / 3 hours / 5 hours / you may receive a call back from a clinician before an ambulance is sent. This has helped as when people hear 5 hours they are generally shocked but can make a better informed decision as to if they can safely make their own way or utilise other pathways.[/quote]
My local service say "an emergency ambulance is being arranged for you"

I know to say "and is that a cat /1/2/3 and what surge level are you in ?" as I phone amb pretty much every day several times. When I first started I thought this meant a blue light ambulance on an emergency response. I soon realised this meant nothing.

It's outrageous this misleading phrase is being trotted out to members of the public who believe it means "we are coming on our blue lights now"

If you watch 999 programmes you’ll see why. People call ambulances for the most ridiculous reasons.

A&E is no better. I’m always gobsmacked by the things people attend A&E for.

I had no idea this was a thing!!!

I had to call an ambulance almost two weeks ago when my two year old suddenly shot a temperature and had a convulsion that looked like a grand mal seizure. She'd bitten her tongue and her lips were turning blue. The ambulance was there in less than 5 minutes and she got blue lighted to resus at A&E.

If I had to wait half the time some people on here have had to wait, I could have been sitting here, with nothing but memories of my little girl.

This thread has genuinely jarred me.