Care home fees. Why does it cost £1000+ per week?

[flashbac]

Why does it cost so much and how much money is being made?

I've been into homes where they don't get much for their £1000 per week. Shoddy places, few staff and not much luxury

Depends on the level of care they need, nursing cost more than residential care.

Because most care homes are private, profit making businesses. So the profit desired is added on to the cost of the building, care team, maintainable of thr building, sick and holiday pay for staff, uniforms, laundry costs, food costs, activities and the million and one other costs.

@Stompythedinosaur

Because most care homes are private, profit making businesses. So the profit desired is added on to the cost of the building, care team, maintainable of thr building, sick and holiday pay for staff, uniforms, laundry costs, food costs, activities and the million and one other costs.

stompy has it!

Because a care home isn’t a hotel. The people there need to be cared for.

how much do you think it should cost?~
24/7 care.

A big chunk of that £1000 is subsidising a state funded resident because the local authority can't afford the full cost.

My DF is in a nursing hone for £1200 per week.
He needs 24 hour watching. Feeding, changing clothes (cant stand up to get to loo or anywhere) showering, medication x8 a day. He has dementia and can't be left on his own. He has to be in a secure place he can't walk out of. Lots of equipment needed and nurses on duty all the time. Ratio of staff to residents is pretty high

Google why it cost so much, its there to tell you why.

A big chunk of that £1000 is subsidising a state funded resident because the local authority can't afford the full cost.

^ this.

My SIL used to own a care home, if ran to a good standard, the profits aren't great. The running costs are high. Cleaning, laundry, heating, all utility bills and waste management are high. Most residents wear incontinence pads etc. Although nursing care is more, the costs again are higher.
I don't think that many people know what goes on in nursing homes. People need turning, fluid checks, peg feeds, catheter care, dressings etc. When I described what I did as night staff, people were surprised. They thought I just changed pads. Most care homes also have end of life care beds, so hospital beds aren't blocked.
Then there's the feeding and medication. It isn't a matter of just dishing up food, nutrition, swallowing needs etc have to be catered for.

When you consider staff costs, utilities, training, insurance, maintenance, equipment etc, it all mounts up.

Those who can pay subsidise those who can't as limits are set as to how much local authorities will pay and it is way below what self funders are asked to pay. It is shocking as carers poorly paid for doing a very tough job and they will employ as few qualified staff as possible and standards vary so much

Staff salaries, training and PPE equipment, recruitment costs
Insurances - buildings, public liability, employers
Overheads - maintenance contracts, utilities, business rates, advertising costs for residents, professional registrations and fees; food, laundry, cleaning products

Plus other expenses not already listed

not all people living in care homes are old. most are disabled people.
mine need 2 people to do their manual handling, all their care needs need to be met. and as they have been disabled since birth they don't have money...oh but they do pay towards their care. all their ESA bar 24.50 a week.

Also they do all the admin for him. He lived woth us until March and the amount of work doctors, district nurses, getting prescriptions, speaking to multiple consultants and advisors and social services and falls teams and memory clinics and incontinence specialists, arguing for him to be tested for this and that or get seoneone to help us in general was a full time job.

Genuinely can't work this out. My gran was in one that cost that and they really seemed to begrudge giving any care at all. Staff constantly complaining if anyone pressed their buzzer, or dared to ask for a drink.
What she received was very poor for that level of money. She's having home care now and that's not much better (but at least she didn't have her medication and money stolen regularly at the care home).

My stepdad is also in a care home. The cost is astronomical but he's getting a lot more for his money. They do moan a lot about having to deal with him and there's been a lot of comments about how they wish he'd just get on with dying. He's a difficult patient as he's partially paralysed and can't talk, but at the end of the day he's paying them to do a job.

Exactly. 24 hour care! How much do you think it costs.
3, 8 hour shifts at min wage £1496
That’s just the wages of 3 care people, doesn’t include the manage. The nursing staff, activity staff, kitchen staff, cleaning staff. Food costs. Medical equipment, building costs, medical costs, electricity costs, maintenance costs. And profit.

I mean really! You struggle to see what it’s spent on!

I have never worked anywhere that has cost that much.

Typically care will cost 600-775 per week and the NHS will fund the nursing element of care at approx 186 per week if the person is deemed to require nursing care.
The costs are;
Gas and electricity. The homes are very large and have lights on 24 hours per day, heat on for at least nine months of the year, a TV in every room, WiFi for all the alexa/Google assistants/ laptops and ipads, not to mention the PC for the management staff.
Maintenance on the building and structural repairs.
Equipment, hoists, stand aids, individual slings, pressure cushions, air mattresses which need replacing regularly due to constant use.
Profiling beds, bariatric beds, commodes and shower chairs, wheelchairs.
Company vehicles to be maintained and insured for days out, trips to the GP/hospital etc.
Food and drink, three meals per day plus homemade cakes, snacks around the clock. All diet fortified with extra vitamins and nutrients to prevent malnutrition.
Laundry services from wear to wear plus bedding, towels, curtains, cushion covers on a regular cleaning schedule.
Cleaning contractors for the industrial laundry machines.
Carpet cleaners, vacuum cleaners, cleaning products, soft furnishings, dining room furnishings crockery and cutlery all needing to be replaced at signs of wear and tear.

Staffing;
Nurses notwithstanding as the NHS funds this as discussed earlier.
Staff will be variously;
Finance/HR
Care staff
Activities staff
Cleaning staff
Laundry staff
Maintenance staff
Gardener/s
Cook/s
Kitchen assistants

The home will be staffed 24 hours per day obviously and this constitutes the largest outlay.

Most homes are private companies or third sector.

Head over to companies House and avail yourself of their most up to date accounts if you are interested.
CQC will detail the company name of whoever runs a particular home.
That may be more beneficial than asking people on mumsnet.

Carehome.co.uk will give you an estimate of each home's fee ranges.
Not many run in to £1000 per week in my experience of the sector.

People largely fail to take account of the 'hotel services' element of a care home's charges. It's not just the cost of the care.

It annoys me when people don't understand, why care costs so much.

Isn't this about £6 per hour?

24 hours in a day, 168 hours in a week.

So £6 an hour, for 24 hour care. I'm not sure how much profit there is in that personally.

The Travelodge in my town is the cheapest there is, and is £67 a night for a single room with breakfast. Add on £15 for lunch and dinner plus staff costs and that's £700 right there for the room and board side of things - food, linen, cleaning, insurance, profit margin etc.

Then add on round the clock care, 24/7/365. If that's an additional £300/week, that's only £1.78 per hour - which is risible for the responsibility and training necessary. Let alone the costs of hospital grade beds, medical equipment, security systems that a hotel wouldn't have for dementia patients, etc.

I was in hospital recently and in the next bed was a lady who normally lived in a nursing home (dementia) she needed so much time and care and was a danger to herself and others.

At minimum wage 24hour 1to1 care cost more than 1400 quid. Even if you halve that that you have a bed/ building/ meals to supply. It's crazy money but really you could easily double it and still not meet peoples needs.

I would like to know the average gross profit margin in a private care home. A few years ago I heard that it was about 35%. 35% of £1200 is quite a lot.