To think schools just won’t be able to stay open in the medium term

[Schoolgrand]

In the medium term we are having thousands of people mixing from different households at a time of high community transmission and now we are hearing reports of an October lockdown. Aibu to think schools in their current form with no mitigation’s just can’t stay open in the medium term.

Surely everyone knew before they were rolled out that they would never be 100% effective?

It makes no sense to blame the children for not being vaccinated! Blame the 20% of adults who have had the opportunity and declined. Teachers themselves have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated

Who's blaming the children? It's a simple fact. Children will carry the virus both into and out of school. That's right out into our communities and within the school community. You can shout all you want about 'schools will not close' but there will be no choice when half the staff in school are off sick and classes can't be managed safely.

Pretending that it is not problematic to have adults around children who are coming into school from households where there is a confirmed case of the virus, no mitigations whatsoever, sharing of resources and facilities etc. etc. is just ignoring that bigger picture. 10 years of cuts in education only add to the problem because even assuming a school could get a supply teacher in to cover the staffing gaps (and this is getting harder and harder), they can't afford it.

@Getawaywithit

It makes no sense to blame the children for not being vaccinated! Blame the 20% of adults who have had the opportunity and declined. Teachers themselves have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated

Who's blaming the children? It's a simple fact. Children will carry the virus both into and out of school. That's right out into our communities and within the school community. You can shout all you want about 'schools will not close' but there will be no choice when half the staff in school are off sick and classes can't be managed safely.

Pretending that it is not problematic to have adults around children who are coming into school from households where there is a confirmed case of the virus, no mitigations whatsoever, sharing of resources and facilities etc. etc. is just ignoring that bigger picture. 10 years of cuts in education only add to the problem because even assuming a school could get a supply teacher in to cover the staffing gaps (and this is getting harder and harder), they can't afford it.

But there absolutely is a difference between a school closing because it doesn’t have enough staff vs a govt policy to close all schools.

@FfrothiCoffi

So teachers refused to work in schools because they were unvaccinated? They were vaccinated to reopen schools?

I didn’t say that anywhere in that post. On here, many teachers were saying they’d be happy to teach full classes again when they were vaccinated. Obviously that had no bearing on actual policy and they had to be in schools (unhappily) regardless, but that’s what many were saying. Note I thought teachers should have been vaccinated ahead of their age cohort.
Now the goalposts seem to have changed.

People wanted the vaccination in any case at the point when we had the data so I agree with you.

"But there absolutely is a difference between a school closing because it doesn’t have enough staff vs a govt policy to close all schools"

This.

@Getawaywithit

"You can shout all you want about 'schools will not close' but there will be no choice when half the staff in school are off sick and classes can't be managed safely"

You don't know there will 'be no choice', your just guessing again.

You don't know

@PurpleOkapi
Yes I do think my CEV child should be in school. They are 4 years old and as entitled to an education as any other 4 year old. We never discriminated on health grounds before in schools but now it's completely fine to say I should just stay home and homeschool....but what about the mental health of me and my child...mothers on here saying they will commit suicide if their children aren't in school but if your child is CEV suck it up.
I also work in education so sure the child I support will be able to do without as well so I can stay at home with my own child.

If it is not OK for the healthy children with healthy families to stay at home on the odd occasion then it absolutely is not acceptable to recommend that those who are CV do so!

Oh and yes my 4 year old shielded entirely alongside family members and siblings from before schools closed in March 2020 until Summer 2021 and have only returned to school last week. So I would argue that my children and myself have made one hell of a sacrifice and yet we have people on here moaning about the inconvenience of one day out to test their child!

@noblegiraffe

Those posting outrage about the idea of a school closure being an inconvenience have missed the point of PurpleOkapi’s despicable post.

It wasn’t about closing schools to protect vulnerable kids (that never happened). It was saying that any vulnerable child who was sent to school by their mother (no fathers here so also sexist) should not expect any attempts to keep them safe and that if that child were to die then that would be entirely on the feckless mother who should have homeschooled them. Because, of course, it is also only fit and healthy children who need to go to school for their mental health, well-being and education, CEV children should be happy to stay at home in a way that is totally unacceptable for everyone else’s children. CEV children being out of school is preferable to taking any measures to lessen their risk.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Sure we should just remove all risk assessments and health and safety guidance in schools. Nut free schools...why should we even have them anymore either? They just cause an inconvenience to everyone else so sure scrap that mitigation and all.

@ExceptionalAssurance

Read the post again herecomesthesun.

I was responding to a teacher specifically talking about being asymptomatic, and the reason I support covid positive teachers who aren't actually ill staying off is because of the potential slippery slope towards forcing in those who are. It was an extremely silly interjection from getonwithit, which is likely why she chose not to pursue the matter further when she realised. You'd have done well to do the same.

you gave the impression that you needed some clarification

I provided it

you're welcome

You cannot possibly have imagined either that clarification from you might have been required or that your attempt came close to offering any.

@jumpbounce

If you’re going to refer to me and deliberately miscontrue what I said, at least have the guts to reply to me directly. I didn’t say “if my children aren’t in school I will commit suicide and your CEV child should suck it up” that’s disgusting.

I said if there is another lockdown and schools are closed, I am at risk of suicide. I managed to pull myself out of the very black hole the last lockdown created, and now I am right back down there. But I notice you conveniently ignored my post until you needed to have another dig at me. I hope you feel very pleased with yourself.

My mental health is on the floor. As is yours, as is many peoples. And still you insist that children being kept home from school is an “inconvenience”, rather than what it is, a decision that will have huge adverse effects.

I’m stepping away from this now. I wish you well and sincerely hope you never experience the “inconveniences” I have.

@ExceptionalAssurance

You cannot possibly have imagined either that clarification from you might have been required or that your attempt came close to offering any.

Nothing would surprise me on here.

I have quite a good imagination.

I am happy to explain things.

As I said, you're welcome .

I don't think anyone wants schools to close but the logistics of keeping them open is very different. We currently have three members off sick with Covid and two members of staff who are pregnant who can't be in classrooms or do break and lunch duties. We have members of staff who have chosen not to be vaccinated and therefore will still have to self-isolate after close contact.

In my school we are encouraging children to wear masks as per the guidelines we have been given by the local authority but we can't enforce it and we have a large percentage who are choosing not to wear them. We have a growing number of parents who are refusing to comply with any guidelines. Only 24% of my year group turned up for their lateral flow tests at the start of this week.

It's inevitable that cases will rise and probable that at some point we will become too short staffed to operate. It's all very well saying just get cover staff in but the appalling way in which school staff were treated by the government over the last lockdowns has led to a shortage of supply teachers and quite frankly as a school which "requires improvement" in a very disadvantaged area we can't afford it.

Shame your comprehension isn't as good as your imagination herecomesthesun.

You don't know there will 'be no choice', your just guessing again

So let's be clear. I work in schools, I know what has been going on in schools for the last 18 months, give or take. I know how covid has spread, despite the precautions taken. because I've been living it for months and months. I also know that budgets are cut to the bone and that schools will struggle not only from a financial perspective to afford supply teachers but that even when funding is available, covid has ensured that the pool of supply teachers has shrunk. Quite considerably. Good supply teachers always had their pick of schools but that is very much the case now. I also know that schools have minimum staffing levels to fulfill as well as a duty of care when it comes to all things health and safety. Lots of staff off = very much the case that individual schools will be closing. Might not be for long. Might not be to all years at the same time. It will be localised and some schools will get lucky and others won't.

But apparently, all that means I don't know that schools will close. Despite the writing on the wall for anyone who cares to read it. You. however, despite the fact that you ridicule me for giving my opinion based on my experiences, simply assert that you are right and it won't happen. If I don't know, neither do you. But I can base my opinions on my experiences and my knowledge of how schools work. What are you basing yours on?

@ExceptionalAssurance

Shame your comprehension isn't as good as your imagination herecomesthesun.

get you x

Get coherent.

There are so many threads on here where we all tear each other to shreds. We should be tearing the govt to shreds for late decision making, wishy washy policy, poor guidelines, money passed around their friends like covid is some big fat fucking cash cow. But no, lets all have a proper barny at each other.

@ExceptionalAssurance

Get coherent.

Take your own advice maybe?

@Mycatcontrolsmymovements

There are so many threads on here where we all tear each other to shreds. We should be tearing the govt to shreds for late decision making, wishy washy policy, poor guidelines, money passed around their friends like covid is some big fat fucking cash cow. But no, lets all have a proper barny at each other.

I'm not really in the mood for a proper barny most of the time.

A friendly chat about people's preconceptions now, I'm up for that.

I don't really like posters having a go at teachers, though, I think they've been through enough the past year.

"00Mycatcontrolsmymovements

There are so many threads on here where we all tear each other to shreds. We should be tearing the govt to shreds for late decision making, wishy washy policy, poor guidelines, money passed around their friends like covid is some big fat fucking cash cow. But no, lets all have a proper barny at each other"

When children's education and welfare are in question, people will be like this. It's very hard at the moment.

"I don't really like posters having a go at teachers, though, I think they've been through enough the past year"

I think you should stop just referring to teachers. Everyone is in the same boat. Everyone has been through enough.

Well, it would seem obvious that people have had very different types of experience and that education has been particularly fraught?

Education covers children’s needs too so yes you could say it’s been tough for them.

But yes agree with pp tough in many situations no doubt.