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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Gutted about NI rise

999 replies

CarryOnNurse20 · 07/09/2021 10:46

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

OP posts:
BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 07/09/2021 18:29

Lots of PPs saying it's unfair on younger working people. But actually it will help those who inherit as they are talking cap on care fees, so younger generations WiLL benefit if their parents own properties !|

SOME younger people will inherit. Not all, by any means.

Inheritance decreases social mobility and increases the divide between those from well-off backgrounds and those who aren't - it is not a force for good.

weresouth · 07/09/2021 18:29

We need to go down the Japanese route everyone over 40 pays an additional 10% tax to fund social care

Regardless of their assets or income?

Theluggage15 · 07/09/2021 18:29

The virus mainly affected the elderly, the stats bear that out, therefore they were the ones the lockdown benefited whether by ‘protecting’ the NHS or by stopping them catching the virus. It didn’t benefit the young and impacted them hugely but they still don’t get a fair rack of the whip and will have to pay for the cost of the lockdowns for years to come while wealthy pensioners are laughing.

Stop pretending otherwise potted.

BrozTito · 07/09/2021 18:29

Or is it moronic to suggest a care home becomes a workhouse if its nationalised?

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 07/09/2021 18:31

The money has to come from somewhere. Many benefited from lockdown either via furlough, extra UC etc. How did we think it would be paid back as well as ensure we have enough for future needs?

weresouth · 07/09/2021 18:32

Many benefited from lockdown either via furlough, extra UC etc

How did they benefit exactly?
Many had no choice as their work was closed & plenty had a cap on their earnings.

BrozTito · 07/09/2021 18:32

Take it from income tax then, like was said 30 pages ago

Lunaduckdrop · 07/09/2021 18:34

Yes, NI is a regressive tax because the threshold is so low. But people voted the Conservatives in. Conservatives will always shaft the low to middle income earners in favour of wealthier and older people who they perceive to be their voters. If you don't want this sort of measure, don't vote for them next time.

Millicentsparty · 07/09/2021 18:35

@BeenAroundTheWorldAndIII
"@Millicentsparty but it isn't just people with cognitive decline that are expected to pay or contribute for home care. There are many people who have no cognitive issues at all only older age means they need home help/carers for cleaning/shopping/personal care/meals/medication management... all comes under the social umbrella."

I agree entirely, I just commented on my experience of my mums dementia. And because last time Theresa May tried to tackle this, it was jeered down as a dementia tax.
I haven't really listened in enough detail to know if this us the right way to do it, but I'm grateful that the govt is,attempting to tackle it and I hope the Labour Party don't just try to bring it down with a stupid catchphrase but actively and seriously try to engage with it so it can be altered, improved, whatever and something is put in place for when, God willing, I'm in my 80s.

Blossomtoes · 07/09/2021 18:35

@Feelingoktoday

I agree. I do not want to sound time in a care home. I would rather die peacefully before that.
We all would. It’s not something we get to choose unfortunately.
weresouth · 07/09/2021 18:35

I mean people were paid furlough because you know protect the NHS & pandemic.

Do you think many people were going to be happy to stay at home as work was shut without pay or do you think there would be social unrest? It's not a trick question, the government wanted people compliant.

littlebilliie · 07/09/2021 18:36

[quote weresouth]@littlebilliie what do you think savings should be for though although I agree care costs are too high? And the current system doesn't include the house value if you have care in the home which is the majority.

I think you need to stop reading the daily mail. In reality how many people do you think live a life of economic activity because they are lazy & want free care. Many of those people will likely die young. Why would someone chose to rent & likely pay more than a mortgage because they just want to spend money.

[/quote]
I think as reader of many newspapers, I have no issue with savings being used for care funding however there is a feeling of inequality . If we pay a tax we all pay, if you have £80k it goes towards the fees it's fairer and means most people will pay something. The care avoidance planning that goes on is awful and affects the elderly person the most not the family. If the system was fairer more would pay.

duffeldaisy · 07/09/2021 18:37

This money (probably more) definitely does need to be raised.
It should, though, be raised from a progressive tax like income tax, rather than a fixed one in NI.

But throughout history, the Conservative Party is funded by the richest, has deals with the richest, and so serves the richest few percent.

If we want fairness, then people need to vote against them in their constituencies. Because no matter how disappointing other parties might be, they could never be as intentionally callous.

littlebilliie · 07/09/2021 18:37

@BrozTito

Are you advocating private workhouses, littlebillie?
Someone else did, close the lovely private homes down Hmm
littlebilliie · 07/09/2021 18:38

@duffeldaisy

This money (probably more) definitely does need to be raised. It should, though, be raised from a progressive tax like income tax, rather than a fixed one in NI.

But throughout history, the Conservative Party is funded by the richest, has deals with the richest, and so serves the richest few percent.

If we want fairness, then people need to vote against them in their constituencies. Because no matter how disappointing other parties might be, they could never be as intentionally callous.

Is this a callous tax?
Slingsanderrors · 07/09/2021 18:38

@weresouth

Less people went to uni, most of which were academic courses. Many people from my grammar school went into family businesses or vocational training like nursing, teacher training, radiography.....all low paid a5 the time.

But degrees are now prerequisite for many jobs, that's not young people's fault.
Do less people go into teaching & nursing today? I wouldn't say they are highly paid today either.

But degrees being a requisite for many jobs is just another “Money to uni’s for bums on seats” policy that successive governments have embraced. Many jobs don’t need a degree, it’s a government way of manipulating the figures of employed, in training, unemployed
Millicentsparty · 07/09/2021 18:39

@Feelingoktoday

Tell the owners of the castles and the country retreats that their houses are not assets. When did the royal family last sell a house to fund their care?
The Queen lives at home and is still working. What care does she need to pay towards.
Srtis · 07/09/2021 18:40

I see the wealthy older lot who don’t pay NI have got away with it again. Talk about looking after your core vote.

weresouth · 07/09/2021 18:41

@Slingsanderrors I'm not disagreeing with you but nonetheless that is the current system.

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 07/09/2021 18:41

We are comfortably off (by no means mega rich but have saved all our married lives and have ok pensions). 40% tax payers when working and would have so happily had 2% extra on my tax if it meant that low earners who are already struggling didn't have to pay an extra 1% NI increase.

Isn't it something like £11 a month on about 25k?
If you have a very low income and are scraping by as it is, £11 a month makes the difference between eating something decent for the last few days of the month, or your child going on a school trip or not having to wait so long for new shoes.
And not every household has a £25 k income, same points above valid for the extra deduction even if it doesn't seem like much to some people

Srtis · 07/09/2021 18:42

The £86k is just for care costs too isn’t it, not accommodation?

weresouth · 07/09/2021 18:43

If we pay a tax we all pay, if you have £80k it goes towards the fees it's fairer and means most people will pay something.

But how can people who haven't got anything pay?

I think a % is fairer than the 80k blanket rule.

The care avoidance planning that goes on is awful and affects the elderly person the most not the family. I

I don't think this proposal will stop any of this.

Claudethecat · 07/09/2021 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Millicentsparty · 07/09/2021 18:44

@weresouth

I mean people were paid furlough because you know protect the NHS & pandemic.

Do you think many people were going to be happy to stay at home as work was shut without pay or do you think there would be social unrest? It's not a trick question, the government wanted people compliant.

On furlough people hot paid 80% of their wages and saved on different costs. Some even worked second jobs. What does it matter why the govt did it, if it was the right thing to do?!
Allycott · 07/09/2021 18:47

@CarryOnNurse20

Wow so many responses. It’s an emotive topic. Can I clarify I absolutely do not blame those who need social care and support an increase in funding for it 100%. I also knew we would pay more taxes due to covid/furlough but it just doesn’t seem fair. My parents both have huge pensions. My dads is 3 x my current salary. They have a huge house worth a fortune as jumped up the ladder during the housing boom. They have been incredibly generous and gave us our deposit or we would never ever have got on the ladder. It just seems unfair that they and their friends have seemingly endless money while their children are all struggling (this is a snippet of society I know all pensioners are NOT the same). It would just seem fairer to tax income generally as it then is a lot fairer. I don’t want to inherit loads of money when I’m 60. I want it to be fairer and to be able to work my decent job and afford a life for my family now. Passing money down the family later in life isn’t helpful or conducive to a well working society.
I don't want to inherit a load of money.

Fuck right off.