Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

Income Tax & N.I. should be merged into a single tax, & Corporation Tax increased to reflect the employers' NI contributions.

Fair to everyone with any income whether from employment or inherited wealth.

@sunflowerstory

Funny how houses are so precious, and the thought of selling them so unimaginably cruel, until it becomes an inherited asset and the kids can't wait to get probate through and cash in their banks.

So true!

@WinTheNight all those economists who label it as regressive must need to brush up on their maths!

Stop blaming by each other.
I remember mortgage rates soaring, I didn't own a property then but I remember thousands of people had their homes repossessed only for those homes to be sold on dirt cheap to those lucky enough to be able to snap them up and sell on at a profit.
I now see the younger generation who cannot afford to rent a house never mind buy one.
I object to a tax increase of any kind.
The rich should pay for this and by rich I mean the seriously rich not someone slogging their guts out to earn £40,000 or less a year.
We do not need a tax increase on the working poor.
Stop funding the Tory cronies. Stop pushing ahead with HS2. Stop this quite frankly farcical testing which is not accurate enough for the world to trust (I'm talking track and trace) the real reason this gets promoted is that once again it benefits Tory mates and donors. What a complete waste of the public's money.
All care homes should be run by the local authority.
Stop all private care homes as they are profit driven.
Stop allowing MPs to fiddle their expenses. Priti Patel claimed over £70,000 for expenses from a beauty firm. The firm involved was closed on the dates P P said she was having work done. She's also claimed more that £5000 stating she bought goods in Primark. Primark!!!! Are you f kidding me? She expects the public to believe she buys her work clothes from Primark bloody hell, at least pretend you shopped in Joules or The White Company give us some credit for having a brain.
On top of all this I myself will have to work until I am 67, at least.

I cannot get to see my doctor.
I have had to work tirelessly throughout the pandemic and am out of pocket for doing so.
I will not vote for the conservatives again.
We live in a greed fuelled hateful world.
One day humans will die out and it won't be a day too soon.
Those who hold the power and finances to make a real change do not care.
People who own houses worth millions should not expect someone earning £20,000 a year to fund their care. The same applies for those who have never worked , unless severely disabled.

Winthenight If you stick it on to income tax, those on lower incomes would pay more than the NI rise. I would, on a £22,011 salary.

[quote Millicentsparty]@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand
"Same here. I save and pay my mortgage down so that I will have something to live on when I retire. Once I get to the point where I can no longer live in my home, I will sell and use the proceeds to fund the best standard of care that I am able to afford."

The problem is you think like this now but this is not how you might think as you get older. I'm astonished how my mums thinking patterns have changed as she has aged. There is a lot more fear and paranoia that plays into your decisions as you're pushed into making decisions that are changing your life as you know it. You might find that your assessment of being able to cope is very different from the assessment of others and decisions are made for you that make you feel disempowered. What I've realised from watching mum and her friends is that clear-headed, well thought out plans made when you're younger often don't play out as you expected when you're older.[/quote]
But government policy should not be about placating the fears and paranoias of vulnerable elderly people.

Government policy should be about what's best for society - and incentivising the appropriate behaviours and decisions through sensible taxation.

Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I think it bizarre that older people expect to hang onto their homes as well as take up a new home in a social care setting

But they need care because they have an illness like dementia and Parkinsons. It's not just because they are elderly.

If they had cancer, all their care would be funded. That isn't fair.

Other countries have social care taxes and we are about 20 years late.

@littlebilliie

The average care home fee is around £40k p a (£50 here where I live) and the average stay in a care home is 2 years so for most people they will be paying for most of their care. 1 in 4 will be in a home up to 7 years and it is those they are protecting.

Care is never straightforward or desirable for anyone, it's that end of life care that most people had with their families. We are not best placed to look after family members and so this cap is fair and will help out families. This will not be for the rich but those who have saved to have a home and perhaps given up things to buy a house.

Why is the cap fair? So that family members can inherit the assets essentially?

@HesterShaw1

People like my mother are sitting on about £400,000 of unearned equity on the large house she lives in, which they paid £65,000 for in 1987. She stopped paying NI on reaching retirement age. She benefits from the non contributory pension my dad was given after he retired (in his 50s), plus her own pensions, plus half of his. She's 75 years old and is still accumulating wealth (spends very little).

How the hell is this a fair system?

So you don't mind nit getting your 400k her house being sold to pay for her care? Yeah right.

@thegcatsmother

Winthenight If you stick it on to income tax, those on lower incomes would pay more than the NI rise. I would, on a £22,011 salary.

If it was on income tax, it would apply to a larger proportion of the population. So in order to raise the same amount of money as this NI increase will generate*, they could apply a lower %.

[* Ignoring the question about whether the amount they will raise is sufficient]

Base rate was over 10% for 20 years

Yes, it was, which brings me (though it's a bit of a tangent) to the sheer idiocy of inflating house prices through stamp duty holidays and the like, when it'll leave many in negative equity come the next recession

And god help us when interest rates rise to a more normal level again ... does anyone really imagine they'll stay at damn all for ever?

Beenasfar Aren't vulnerable elderly people part of society then?

Care homes around me are about £1,000pw, so £50,000 per year. Once you've spent your money there, residents are then asked to leave. They lose their home, their friends and any stability they had. There should be funding in place so people can stay in their care home where they're happy and settled. I hope the cap helps that to happen.

@thegcatsmother

Beenasfar Aren't vulnerable elderly people part of society then?

Of course they are. But irrational worries are not what should drive government policy - whether the person worrying is 25 or 85.

This country is becoming more divided by the day. All very sad. I hate seeing young against old in this way. Yes, there are wealthy pensioners, but I do not grudge anything to people who have worked all their lives and contribute. Although housing was cheaper, many people faced interest rates of 16%. Myself and my husband did without many things that are seen as necessities today. When I did voluntary work, I met many people young and old who definitely struggled. If , as an older person myself, I have to pay more to help our own economy, Im quite willing to do this. I do really feel for young families and young single people. I have many young friends who would love to afford a place to rent(not necessarily own) but they are all on either pt-time hours, temporary contracts or zero hours. How are people to support themselves on this? There are so many working poor. Please do not blame the elderly for this situation, consecutive governments have done nothing to address these issues, that needed to be looked at long before any Pandemic. However, this Pandemic was always going to need paid for.

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I think it bizarre that older people expect to hang onto their homes as well as take up a new home in a social care setting

But they need care because they have an illness like dementia and Parkinsons. It's not just because they are elderly.

If they had cancer, all their care would be funded. That isn't fair.

Other countries have social care taxes and we are about 20 years late.

That’s not actually the case. Cost of medical care is funded whether you have dementia or cancer or Parkinson’s. cost of social care is not. For any of them

And god help us when interest rates rise to a more normal level again ... does anyone really imagine they'll stay at damn all for ever?

I don't see how they can raise them, especially against a backdrop of NI increases & income tax freezes & likely more wage stagnation.

@weresouth

What I would like to see is higher immigration into this country, particularly from countries like Afghanistan. More younger people working and paying tax would be a good way to address the social care issue.

we are going to need more immigrants sooner than later, look at the fertility rate which won't be boosted by today's news & we look even more unattractive to immigrants as they now will get paid even less.

I would not like to see higher immigration you know that's like a pyramid scheme where you need more and more people to support the elderly. We need less people in this country not more.

I do believe we keep people alive far too long and hearing all this chat of nursing homes is tempting me after 14 years so start smoking again. I honestly do not want the indignity of nursing care. Perhaps we need to discuss if you're 80 and had enough it's alright to go and not drag it out with a ton of care and medicines to keep you alive but not actually living.

I realise what I'm saying my offend but that is not my intention there needs to be a discussion for the people alright with death and happy to go after living a full life. I for one am happy to go before I linger in a nursing home. I know friends who continue/starting smoking again as they simply don't want to end up in these places. Both my parents died young so I am aware of the trauma of early death however on balance I do think it's preferable to completely losing your dignity,

I'm interested to hear another point of view on this as there's often some wisdom on here.

Base rate was over 10% for 20 years

That is correct & imo it's far better for the economy to have cheaper prices & higher rates.

Still, at least we’re getting all that Brexit cash for the NHS 🙄

All care household be reclaimed by the state. It absolutely does not cost £1000 per week to provide the care most elderly people receive , it doesn't. Profit making private care homes should be banquished.

Homes not households

It'll cost our household nearly £100 a month - on paper we earn reasonably well but in reality we pay everything out on mortgage etc.

That's the kid's club money gone 😡

@Wiredforsound

Still, at least we’re getting all that Brexit cash for the NHS 🙄

And crapload of tax from immigrants who were net contributors but understandably fucked off after the big event...

@RyanReynoldsHusband

But we knew taxes would have to rise after Covid. After lockdowns. After furlough. We knew it was coming.

It doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t make it fair, but really what did we expect? The shortfall has to come from somewhere.

This ^^

Lots of PPs saying it's unfair on younger working people. But actually it will help those who inherit as they are talking cap on care fees, so younger generations WiLL benefit if their parents own properties !| it will start to help NhS and social care, hopefully. Covid caused massive national debt it has to be paid for somehow

It's not just older people that go into care homes , disabled people do and they also lose their owned homes. MND MS early strokes, early dementiaC brain injuries, cancer, these illnesses can happen at any time to previously healthy people.

Services are on their knees. Pp want better funded NhS and social care then somehow it has to be paid for. PPs don't want to lose their "inheritances" it has to be paid for somehow!