Gutted about NI rise

[CarryOnNurse20]

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

Anyway. 2nd homes and landlords...

Yes we know we had to pay more tax, the argument is about the tax type.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty im only 43 and when I started work not all employers had schemes and those that did werent necessarily open to all employees.

@Xenia

The effect of this is that most people with a house will have to pay 100% of their care and the state will not help by way of even a penny (as most people don't need more than £86k worth of care - and you have to pay all that yourself), despite having to pay 1% extra NI from age 18 to 70!!! Whereas those who never work a day in their life pay nothing and those who do work but have no savings pay the extra NI pay nothing other than that for the care. As ever the harder workers and higher earner savers are shafted and the idle and lazy benefit from the hard work of others.

This is what seems the most ludicrous about it.

But what makes it even more crazy is that in the area I live in it's VERY common to people to rent their house out to cover their care. A house here can easily rent for £2k+ a month. So on top of savings and pensions, the cost is covered without selling the home anyway.

But now in this scenario after £83k of costs, which looks like it's equivalent to around 3 years of residential care. They can continue to bring in £2k+ a month in rent, keep their home, claim their pension, and have their care home fees covered?

It just seems like this method hugely benefits people who are wealthy.

I work for Nhs but as tuped from local government, have a freeze on my wages, earn just over to top up wages with UC, bills gas and electric bills gone up and now this.

I know this sounds heartless, but this means a pay cut to me each year until the freeze is over and it makes me sad when I read that they want to keep the £20.00 a week uplift for UC, what about the people who are on low wages but earn a bit too much to claim UC.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

It’s a salient point about additional pensions.

Anyone can get the SP - even people who have never worked a day in their lives. Typically though, this applies to women above a certain age, as they were much more likely to give up work to have kids in their 20s and many never worked again, just lived off their husband’s wage. Rather than returning to work after their kids grew up, many never worked again & then claimed a SP. They had many years in which they could’ve worked and put money away for their care but didn’t. And now us mums who work are expected to fund them.

@worrybutterfly firstly not all houses can bring in 2k per month in rental income. My dad's would bring in maybe £600.

Secondly, there are no care homes round here that charge as little as 2k/month for a dementia patient. More like double that.

Yes I'm pissed off, it's going to hit me and I'm already on a low wage. My darling mum scrimped and saved all her life and all her savings have gone on extortionate care home fees. It's a disgrace I'm going to be paying for rich people to leave their houses to their kids.

@HollyS880

What happened to the supposed £350 million on the side of the bus or the millions we’d save leaving the EU, can that not fund this? Lol.

Don't tell me you believe that did you lol

Too late for many of my friends who have not received any or very little inheritance as it was all gone on care fees. And they will still be paying increased NI now for many years to come still after being relatively young when they lost their parents.

@Nightlystroll

It's almost as if the forelock tugging British cannot help but try to make themselves feel part of the nobility by rubbing their hands with glee

Oh stop it. Ridiculous comments like this just detract from your argument.

Then why are our Prime Ministers and cabinet members continually drawn from the upper echelons of public school alumni, with the titles to match their auspicious stock (albeit usually hidden away so as not to detract from their 'man of the people' schtick when they have to go and visit northern factories or Cornish fishermen)?

@lllllllllll - the purpose of the tax is to prevent old people who need care from having to pay more than a certain amount so that the richest will benefit most while the younger poorer workers pay for it. (as NI is chargeable on workers wages under a certain amount it is highly regressive). This is a tax to benefit rich old people and those who will inherit from them. It will disadvantage the working poor.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@worrybutterfly firstly not all houses can bring in 2k per month in rental income. My dad's would bring in maybe £600.

Secondly, there are no care homes round here that charge as little as 2k/month for a dementia patient. More like double that.[/quote]
I know. That's what I'm saying.

It's creating a further divide when we are meant to be levelling up. My parents worked no harder, or invested much more money, that someone in a less affluent areas. But they, and ultimately me, are set to further benefit from the north/south divide. Which is 100% wrong.

Even if they required dementia care the amount of equity they have in their property would easily allow them to release enough to cover the gap in funding until they hit the £83k limit. So still no need to sell up. Which others won't have the privilege of being able to do.

Haven't RTFT, but comments about boomers buying their houses for £50k in the 80s seem to forget that interest rates were at 14%, people struggled and didn't have holidays or takeaways or new cars largely, they consumed less but put their money in to their homes. In the scenario of somebody lucky enough to have secured social housing, they may well have earned the same, but lead a much easier life with holidays and such, but will qualify for "free" care for their full time of need - how on earth is that fair?

There's no such thing as fair in this life, we just have to suck it up, and be grateful we live in a country which provides care at all.

@Realyorkshiretea - people qualifying for state pensions now need at least 35 years contributions with only 12 coming from child benefit credits. So they need to work to get one. Agree though in past some (mainly women as you say) could qualify without working.

It's all very well calling for a rise in IHT, but the simple truth of the matter is that even if you doubled or tripled it, it still wouldn't be enough to fill the gap.

In 2016/17, miscellaneous revenues including IHT received by the Treasury were £7.5bn.

Income tax was £186bn.

Iht is also among the most poorly administered taxes by HMRC. Frankly, HMRC would not be able to cope with the admin of ramping it up.

It's too small a gain for too much effort.

Whilst I'm not saying we shouldn't increase IHT, it is not going to solve our problems and calling for a rise in it is usually promoted by sheer ideology rather than any basis in the cold hard cash which would be generated.

This was always going to be an income tax, NIC, or VAT raid. For the sheer scale of the funds needed, it has to be.

@lollipoprainbow

Yes I'm pissed off, it's going to hit me and I'm already on a low wage. My darling mum scrimped and saved all her life and all her savings have gone on extortionate care home fees. It's a disgrace I'm going to be paying for rich people to leave their houses to their kids.

this raise will also pay for people like your mum who have scrimped and saved all their lives to keep some of their savings and not have to spend it all on extortionate care home fees - does that put it in a better perspective for you?

Incidentally, care home fees are higher for those who fund their own care, in order to cover those who did not save for their old age, but may have had plenty and just spent it over the years.

@bagelsandoranges

Yet again, the wealthy pensioners are coveted to keep votes. Working age people.... In 40's and below are squeezed to the limit yet again. There is literally no respite. No gold plated pension. No retirement at 50/55/60/65. No ample health services available. No increased house price wealth. No decent space to live when even affording a tiny home. No job stability. No free university/ tuition (many people spend most of their lives with debt like this... Even careers such as pilot training used to be granted!). No day to day quality of life, 9 til 5 work life balance that the boomers so richly took advantage of. Nope. Just accepting and inhumanly, robotically adjusting to higher workloads, longer working hours, reduced staff and amenities in society, a crumbling NHS, and no ability to easily leave the country ... Shall I go on. It is unfair and totally unjust.

Correct

Ah yes, they say 80s interest rates were their dunkirk.

Been confirmed that the triple lock is suspended for one year...

This comment, from farther up the thread, perfectly illustrates how sowing the seeds of division sets people against one another in emotive situations:

"... Whereas those who never work a day in their life pay nothing and those who do work but have no savings pay the extra NI pay nothing other than that for the care. As ever the harder workers and higher earner savers are shafted and the idle and lazy benefit from the hard work of others....".

So, by that logic, a nurse, hospital porter, carer, teacher, supermarket cashier, office clerk, courier, delivery driver, hairdresser et al are not considered 'harder workers' because they haven't been able to save for their later life care.

If you're working your backside off in any of those, or similar scenarios, which rarely offer salaries large enough to save anything like the amount of money needed to fund full-time residential or nursing care, and you can't afford buy a house you can later sell in order to fund your care costs, you're 'idle' and 'lazy'.

Simply by rote of not having been able to save, or buy a property, you're deemed to be idle and lazy. Amazing.

I'm guessing that you're also 'idle' and 'lazy' if you're unable to work through accident or illness, too.

Such a simplistic, narrow-minded outlook as this really ought to be writing the headlines for the next big Rupert Murdoch-inspired periodical or cable TV channel.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

CGT on principle private residences please!

Can you imagine what that would do to the housing market? No one would every move, and certainly wouldn't downsize, ever again!

Im a boomer i was born in 1955 in a family of 10.my dad worked all his life and never asked for a penny we lived in a council flat and would never had dreamed of buying a house unless you won the pools. I worked from 14 and a half till last jan. I get a state pension and a works pension which I have paid into and I dont go on holiday or live in a mansion. My DH is still working so he will pay the new rise. We are not struggling but nowhere near as rich as some of you think I am, and after working all these years I think I deserve a rest. Sorry im not on my death bed like a lot of you think I should be. You will all if your lucky get to my age and hopefully you will be reaping the benefits of a life that you have worked long and hard for.

@bagelsandoranges maybe young people and the under 40s had better start using their vote to better effect then. We get one each, regardless of our wealth.

@CayrolBaaaskin quite right. Although anyone above 68 doesn’t need to have paid any NI to claim a SP, and that’s obviously the vast majority of today’s pensioners. So this particular perk won’t apply to anyone of working age at the moment - ha! Quelle surprise!