To think the NHS isn’t fit for purpose?

[SpicyJalfrezi]

It is in no way a criticism of individuals who work for the NHS. It’s the system. It isn’t working at all. I don’t really understand why we aren’t facing this as a nation.

Something needs to change. It’s currently only just about limping on due to the goodwill of the staff.

Sadly, I agree

Some of us are facing it very personally at the moment. Many will die before they receive vital treatment.

Can you be more specific on what your own concerns are?

Agreed.

But then when you look at other countries health care systems users say much the same. The current thread on the Australian system is interesting.

I'd like to know the thoughts of those who think it IS fit for purpose

The reason is that the alternative being offered is an American system. And people aren't stupid enough to want that. So the NHS limps along, being slowly killed so that eventually anything will be better.

I think we’re not facing it because we don’t trust the Conservative government not to respond with changes that would make it a bit better but much more expensive, harder to access and involve big profits for their mates.

I agree too and I'd like to see tax rise to pay for improvement and even possibly a bit of a system like Germany (based on not much actual info but talking to colleagues there- that said they're still waiting for vaccines, some of them)
I feel so sorry for staff working in a system without the money it needs to get it organised properly - meaning the correct number of staff and sorting out the admin side. I have the utmost respect for all staff and wish you had it better

The clever solution would be to see what works vs doesn't work here vs in other socialised health care systems and then keep the good and fix/replace the bad... but the single implied alternative on MN always seems to be "current NHS vs 100% privatised".

@helpfulperson

But then when you look at other countries health care systems users say much the same. The current thread on the Australian system is interesting.

I've never lived anywhere but the UK, but people I know who use the French and Belgian systems seem to have nothing but praise for them.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I think we’re not facing it because we don’t trust the Conservative government not to respond with changes that would make it a bit better but much more expensive, harder to access and involve big profits for their mates.

That can't be the case for most people, since a majority of voters elected the conservatives in the last general election and the polls say they'd win again of there were another election tomorrow.

Hasn't been fit for purpose for a very long time, Covid has just made it a total disaster. I'd recommend getting private healthcare to anyone who can afford it, you can't rely on the NHS even for serious things right now.

I agree it’s the same thing year on year. Staff always shattered and burnt out and never enough pandemic or no pandemic. At what point do we get more people in jobs and get point where basic needed surgery don’t have years waiting.

It’s already becoming norm to see Private GP over phone or certainly for anything urgent, same with emergency dentist. Even people that wouldn’t ever considered “going private” just see a way of getting things done. We end up the poor having wait years and anyone with money can take their pick. I know that’s always been case for very well off but now even those lower incomes will throw it on credit card because waiting in pain for months is just awful.

Had guy on news other day needed gall bladder operation. He was in hospital 6m symptoms so bad and they still hadn’t operated when he finally went home. Surely what it costs would have paid for itself many times over.

Medicine is always in demand at Uni so let’s seriously move places and get plans for 10y down the line and see some action. I really worry older I get and lack of options I will have.

I would favour moving to the system used in some European countries which involves some charges at point of care. But def not the appalling US system.

As has been said on here before the NHS is a sacred cow. Any time alternatives are discussed it's a USA system or NHS as the only options. But there are bound to be other options!!

I'm in NI and it is truly shocking here. Years for a first appointment let alone treatment. But everyone is resigned to it being crap.

There seems to be a real crisis with GP appointments. I don't know what the short term answer is (longer term, I hope the govt are getting a lot more doctors trained). I am reluctantly beginning to wonder if a service that's free at point of use is sustainable in light of demand and developments in medicine. If we could find a way to protect people on a low income, some sort of insurance scheme might be preferable?

@MrsTerryPratchett

The reason is that the alternative being offered is an American system. And people aren't stupid enough to want that. So the NHS limps along, being slowly killed so that eventually anything will be better.

Agree, there are much better alternatives.

But people don't want to pay for their healthcare

I'd love it if the nhs was structured around a whole system approach, rather than each diagnostic little department - few people have only one thing wrong with them these days and it might help being treated like a whole person rather than an anatomical feature. The gp used to be your care co-ordinator and first point of call - now I think virtual appointments could be far more efficient.

Can't we use the £350M a week we are saving by not being in the EU?🤔

@TheHouseILiveIn

Can't we use the £350M a week we are saving by not being in the EU?🤔

fucking lying brexiteers

The NHS is a product of its own success. By providing absolutely all healthcare free at the point of access, people are living longer and with an ageing population it’s unsustainable.

People are worried that if we talk about introducing payment for parts of the service that’ll it’ll become like the US system, but that is the other extreme.

I think we as a society need to rethink how we look at healthcare. Private policies are as low as £30p/m, (granted for young and healthy). However people are completely unwilling to pay that, but are happy to pay £50+p/m for a phone contract.

The NHS should be a safety net for people that can’t afford healthcare or who’s insurance won’t cover the treatment. That way the NHS will be sustainable for the future.

That’s my very humble opinion having worked in healthcare for 10 years. Just an opinion.

Well it has been chronically underfunded for years and there are a shortage of trained Drs and nurses. the number of acute hospital beds per person has decreased too so it is much smaller that nit was. However in terms of value for money and efficiency per £1.00 spent it is right up there - America is the most inefficient system in therms of value for money.

@Bookridden

There seems to be a real crisis with GP appointments. I don't know what the short term answer is (longer term, I hope the govt are getting a lot more doctors trained). I am reluctantly beginning to wonder if a service that's free at point of use is sustainable in light of demand and developments in medicine. If we could find a way to protect people on a low income, some sort of insurance scheme might be preferable?

The problem with a system that doesn't charge people on low incomes is that it means that most users still won't be paying but you'll have gained a lot of admin and lost a lot of goodwill. Look at prescription charges - 90% of prescriptions aren't paid for. People often say that charges should be introduced for other things, like GP appointments, but not for pensioners - but then that's a bit pointless as you're not charging your (by far) heaviest users.

We are one of a very small number of countries with all healthcare free at point of delivery. Most European countries have an element of self insurance via mutuals so v affordable.

But nobody is prepared to discuss this massively widely used and successful model as they get up in arms about privatising the NHS.