To think the NHS isn’t fit for purpose?

[SpicyJalfrezi]

It is in no way a criticism of individuals who work for the NHS. It’s the system. It isn’t working at all. I don’t really understand why we aren’t facing this as a nation.

@TheVolturi

How much is health insurance does anyone know? Like they have in America for instance, do they pay a set amount and then pay per Dr's appointment /hospital visit or is it all covered? Here, with the NHS, especially at the moment it seems like you've got to battle to get seen for anything.

I got a quote from bupa a month ago and it was £40. However, due to pre-existing conditions a lot wouldn't be covered(didn't change the price though). It wasn't worth it really! I think in America most people's insurance is through work so really varies. Plus you have a huge excess to use it. It's fairly standard to pay $1000s to have a baby even though you are insured. And drugs are so much more expensive there the prices just go up and up.

Well we do spend less on healthcare than comparable countries.
As for so called inefficiency, the WHO rates the NHS as very efficient.
With regard charging fees for doctors appointments or insurance based systems, well if the point of that is to fund the NHS better, why not just fund the NHS better and not bother with an extra layer of costly admin.
As I always say, we get what we vote for. The Tories have effectively privatised NHS dentistry and I haven't heard a word of complaint about the Tories over that.

The government is underfunding it in order to make it unfit for purpose. Then they can make us pay for it and we will all be grateful. Fuckers.

This.

I know I've mentioned this already on the other thread but in case it helps provide another estimate of cost for private healthcare. It's through work so no doubt cheaper, but our annual health insurance is £250 per person with AXA PPP (so just over £20 per month). There's a £100 excess for the first claim per year per person.

Our policy does cover pre-existing/chronic conditions, certainly as far as acute treatment is concerned (think it's termed medical history disregarded). They're paying for me to have a hip replacement due to a long term chronic illness from childhood. I've chosen the specialist and the hospital. I know we're lucky to have it but I feel very relieved to be able to have the surgery a couple of months after my first consultation. We also get a free private GP service through our plan. For us, it's been worth every penny but I appreciate that not everyone has £20 a month to spare or an employer that offers it,

@Mintjulia

I can't fault them. They have provided everything my family has needed for the last 15 years.

They've provided good maternity care, delivered DS safely, they cared effectively for him when he had swine flu as a baby, they've provided his df with a hip replacement, they've provided great dental care for us both for the last decade, they've provided an HPV vaccine for DS, the ambulance service came to ds's call when I had a bad reaction to something earlier this year.

111 has always been there when we needed it. Plus regular smears and mammograms. My GP even saw me within a couple of hours when I found a lump.

I can't believe I'm the only one.

I haven’t used healthcare that much considering but have found it very good too.

I’ve also used private which had some benefit at the time.

I’ve been lucky I think, always access to what we needed. I did see the labour ward close to public over NYE and a back log pre labour, it was fine if not dull waiting for three nights (not in labour obvs) but I suppose an indication of strain.

@colouringindoors

The government is underfunding it in order to make it unfit for purpose. Then they can make us pay for it and we will all be grateful. Fuckers.

This.

Couldn’t agree more.

Private policies are as low as £30p/m, (granted for young and healthy).

My fil had private health insurance all his life. Until he got elderly and started developing some health problems. His insurance provider then cancelled his policy and just about all the healthcare he had in his life ended up being delivered by the NHS.

My DD (23) has a really horribly painful throat at the moment - she can barely drink. Called GP Saturday. The emergency GP service said to call 111 or go to A and E. was on hold with 111 for over an hour. In the end we contacted a private local GP who diagnosed a serious throat infection, strong painkillers and antibiotics. Last time this happened she was on the verge of sepsis... thank God we have the money for private.

Friend has stage 3 cervical cancer which has spread. Radiology appt cancelled last week. (Supposed to be having treatment 5 days a week for 6 weeks...) no word of when this will start.

During the week we can't get anyone to even answer the phone at my GPs. Impossible to get an appt.

DH had a medical as part of his work. Found a potentially serious heart issue but no symptoms. GP said he could be waiting months for NHS and suggested he goes private. His dad, grandad and great grandad all died of heart issues in mid/ late 40s so a significant possibility of genetic issues.

DH And both my parents have had amazing treatment on the NHS prior to COVID. It's just soooo shit now.

Mintjulia

I can't fault them. They have provided everything my family has needed for the last 15 years.

They've provided good maternity care, delivered DS safely, they cared effectively for him when he had swine flu as a baby, they've provided his df with a hip replacement, they've provided great dental care for us both for the last decade, they've provided an HPV vaccine for DS, the ambulance service came to ds's call when I had a bad reaction to something earlier this year.

111 has always been there when we needed it. Plus regular smears and mammograms. My GP even saw me within a couple of hours when I found a lump.

I can't believe I'm the only one.“

I had brilliant cancer treatment 5 years ago.

My 88 year old MIL lay on her kitchen floor with a life threatening injury, in agony with nothing but paracetamol, for over 10 hours waiting for an ambulance just days ago.

It is not working.

They nhs is up and down depending g on the service. I've used it a fair bit, for emergency care it is superb- from going to a&e one afternoon with tingling I was assessed and having spinal surgery within 4 hours. I'll be forever grateful. The physio afterwards wasn't nearly enough, I got out a credit card and went private for that (worth every penny but I'm still in debt now)
My c-section was great aswell- although the aftercare was so poor I'd look into private if I had another baby.
It's over the past few years the cutbacks have been really obvious. Although I'm an existing patient, getting an appt with my neurologist took a year. Same with my spinal consultant- should've had a check up for my concerns in may and im still on the waitlist for an appt.
there's just not enough staff. And sadly one doctor/physio/healthcare professional can only look after so many people at a time

One of the biggest problems for the NHS is it is run more like a charity than a proper business. What I see constantly is staff who are struggling either physically or mentally taking long term sick leave while paid full pay for 6months and half pay for another 6 months. The team can't recruit any new staff because of this so the team are left carrying the workload which puts them under too much pressure and leads to more absence. Bad behaviour and incompetence are swept under the carpet, no one can be sacked because of the risk of a costly grievance. Private companies would never allow these sorts of issues.

I've used the French system a few times & found that very good

I’ve worked in the NHS for over 10 years now as a nurse and recently left ICU to go into a 9-5 as it was becoming unbearable.

The staff shortages are my biggest concern- even if the NHS goes private how will they get enough staff to suddenly have a world class service? A fifth of nurses employed in the NHS are over 55. That means 20% of current nurses will be retiring in the next 10 years. The nursing bursary has stopped- when I trained a large proportion of my class were mature students doing their training post children etc, and could only afford it because of the bursary. We relied heavily on Europe for nurses and those numbers have plummeted due to Brexit.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/f2ace7d9-59ce-406c-9db6-a844e6806e05

There is a Youtube, USA v UK hospitals.
I am sure an US citizen would LOVE to have out NHS.
UP to $40.000 to Give birth.
$40 to do skin to skin, with your baby,

It's not palatable but we also have an ageing population which puts a huge pressure on a "free system" because people haven't actually put enough in the system & we have less workers.

By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over, 6.8% will be aged 75+ and 3.2% will be aged 85+ (ONS, 2017b).

It's terrifying

Rang 111 tonight... It suggested I try the online app. Which suggested I ring 999 for advice.. Over a cut finger...
Tried the actual phone call version. On hold for 1 hour and 15 mins.
Then advised a GP will ring back.
That was at 7. The dc with the cut is now in bed..
Why advise ringing 999 for advice? Isn't that the point of 111? Told to clog 999 over a cut finger!!

I don’t know why aren’t more 8h shifts. People could work more days a week and not feel like work days are complete right offs working 7-7 and out the house 13-14h a day then collapsing in a heap. Some people would prefer longer days but can’t do more harm than everyone constant wrecked. Flat out 12h shifts or nothing means many people just leave.

‘The NHS should be a safety net for people that can’t afford healthcare

Yep Totally Then we can have the usual suspects don their morally superior cloaks and denigrate NHS users in the same way that they do to benefit claimants and/or social housing tenants. ............oh wait that has already been happening over the past 18 months.

Shortage of hcp has been an issue since I was a child. Successive governments just haven't trained enough, and I agree they should then have to work for the NHS afterwards or repay the full cost of the training. I think governments have decided it's cheaper to import doctors than train them.

I think criticism of the NHS as the moment is a bit unfair. In that early this year we had 40,000 people in hospital with covid while simultaneously delivering the biggest vaccination programme in history. To expect other services to be unaffected by this just isn't realistic.

It needs reform but the age old meme of any reform means a US style healthcare has been pushed from anti tories for 30 years, yet unironically another meme is that we should follow the nordoc model which has a strict insurance model with limited access for immigrants and payed GP visits.

It isn't the right that is holding up the discussion that is needed, it's the vocal left who are trying to determin the talking points. When the vocal left get past the talking point of increasing funding to save the NHS we will get somewhere, as it is, it's an easy oppostion scoring point

I read threads like this, and it just isn't my experience at all. Mine is this...

Dd just been to hospital for 2 broken arms. Absolutely and utterly brilliant service. Doctors and nurses, all of them, and there were a lot, all lovely, professional, friendly. None seemed tired or burnt out. In fact, I was kind of flabbergasted by how good it was - can I get you a cup of tea, what would you like for dinner etc etc

Every time I've needed a doctor over the past say ten years, (amd it's not often, maybe once per year for one of us), phone is picked up, appointment has always been for same day.

Dd1, nhs saved her life when she was a baby with bronchiolitus. We were rushed through. Again, brilliant service.

My step father, incredibly unhealthy and doesn't help himself whatsoever. Same day appointments, he's been kept alive when he wouldn't have been with a plethora of drugs.

I'm not doubting anyone else experiences at all, I've just never had bad service.

I have found the NHS fantastic particularly in emergency care but also rubbish & inefficient.

I think the NHS is a service that we need to fight to keep, it would be such a massive failure if we let this service die.

It needs funding properly and it needs managing correctly.

It needs funding properly and it needs managing correctly.

But in reality what does this look like?

@colouringindoors

The government is underfunding it in order to make it unfit for purpose. Then they can make us pay for it and we will all be grateful. Fuckers.

This.

Yes, this!!