To think this comparison is unfair and misleading?

[LemonMarshmallow]

A formula v breastfeeding visual I’ve just seen on fb.
2 rainbow bottles side by side detailing the components of both except on the formula side they’ve not included that formula (always) contains minerals too
Plus there are some things like probiotics, ogliosaccharides and nucleotides that a few also contain.

I feel really bad for anyone seeing this . Yes breastmilk is amazing and I bf my toddler but I KNOW formula contains more than this is indicating and I think it’s unfair it’s being shared on fb and it’s not correct and it going to make people feel bad

I don’t find it offensive at all though I can see that if it should say minerals in both bottles then that should be added (or I guess taken away from the bf bottle). I think bfing is hard and this would encourage you to keep going.

They are all required to say "we all know breast is best" and they only advertise follow on milk? Certainly not bombarded with any advertisement for formula used from birth, which is incredibly common.

We absolutely are, most people probably don’t know it. We have been marketed formula aggressively in the U.K. since about the 50. It’s part of the reason rates are so low and there’s so much misinformation around breastfeeding. Where do you think those billions of marketing budgets go? If formula is such a necessity ( which it absolutely is) why do they even need to market it? Never have companies marketed products so unscrupulously and with such little science to back up their claims. I think outrage over a graphic shared on FB that isn’t totally accurate for either is misplaced tbh.

Just a note to say Vegan mums that are pregnant/breastfeeding must supplement their diet with B12 or else their milk won't have "everything their baby needs at all". A severe lack of B12 would cause developmental problems/delay. Don't assume breastfeeding contains everything your baby needs ...if you are strict vegan and not supplementing your B12 it won't.

www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/life-stages/pregnancy-and-breastfeeding

Anyone who’s using formula is likely to have read the packaging and know anyway that it contains minerals and maybe probiotics or whatever, so I don’t think the concern there is as huge as you’re feeling it.

Of course misinformation is a bad thing, but ultimately that graphic makes the point it is trying to which is that there are many elements of breast milk that formula can’t possibly begin to replicate.

That might well be helpful information for someone who’s pregnant and trying to decide which way to feed under the belief that it doesn’t make much difference to their baby’s nutrition whether they use formula or milk.

You might be right that seeing a picture like that could be upsetting for mums who struggled to breast feed, but those women wouldn’t be upset if they weren’t already informed about both types of milk.

I couldn't breastfeed dd and it almost threw me into pnd. I felt so awful and graphics like this were devastating. It was only when dd went to nursery and someone pointed you couldn't tell who was fed what I fully forgave myself. Dd is 10 now and I still haven't forgotten how this stuff made me feel I'd failed as a parent.

@NailsNeedDoing

Anyone who’s using formula is likely to have read the packaging and know anyway that it contains minerals and maybe probiotics or whatever, so I don’t think the concern there is as huge as you’re feeling it.

Of course misinformation is a bad thing, but ultimately that graphic makes the point it is trying to which is that there are many elements of breast milk that formula can’t possibly begin to replicate.

That might well be helpful information for someone who’s pregnant and trying to decide which way to feed under the belief that it doesn’t make much difference to their baby’s nutrition whether they use formula or milk.

You might be right that seeing a picture like that could be upsetting for mums who struggled to breast feed, but those women wouldn’t be upset if they weren’t already informed about both types of milk.

This isn't to inform. It's to make people feel worse/better. My milk had gone. Stuff like this was to make me feel worse. Health visitors and midwives are there to inform you before birth and while it's still a choice. This stuff is to guilt trip.

We absolutely are, most people probably don’t know it. We have been marketed formula aggressively in the U.K. since about the 50. It’s part of the reason rates are so low and there’s so much misinformation around breastfeeding. Where do you think those billions of marketing budgets go? If formula is such a necessity ( which it absolutely is) why do they even need to market it? Never have companies marketed products so unscrupulously and with such little science to back up their claims. I think outrage over a graphic shared on FB that isn’t totally accurate for either is misplaced tbh.

In the UK they do not advertise formula other than follow on milk any longer.

But regardless, this does not address the other part of my comment. Of course companies will advertise their product, if allowed. The point is, random people on Facebook do not need to advertise breastfeeding. They do so to lecture others, and dress it up as being supportive. Medical advice should come from medical professionals.

I just know how hard it can be as a new parent wanting to do your best and this could really upset someone formula feeding

It’s only the first (or maybe second ...) in a large variety of parenting fails, so we’d better get used to it 😂

Seriously though, wanting to do your best is great but parents need to be realistic about what they can and can’t do, and live with it. Much of it is really so minor in the scheme of things.

It is oversimplified and nonsense in places, I get why people dislike it. I think it's pretty crappy for someone to have taken their image and post it in a group if it's not specifically a group for breastfeeding support.

However, while they could be more accurate, that logo is from an American company that helps trains and give access to lactation consultants. Take everything online with a pinch or two of salt, but it's not their fault their image caught on in UK groups when it's trying to counter the US's far laxer rules around advertising in general and many cultures against breastfeeding in the US. I doubt people would be looking at the original company's stuff unless breastfeeding is what they wanted support with.

I disagree that graphics like that can't be support for women who are struggling to breastfeed with little other support because I used to get support from being in online spaces to support breastfeeding.

Beyond my spouse, the only support I had to breastfeed my first was random people online (back in the wild days of livejournal). Both his family and my family were against it - his would always say "if you can" if I mentioned it and generally made me uncomfortable for doing it, my family just called breastfeeding disgusting. I did not have any medical support - in fact, I was pressured in hospital to stop, got told I had "deep milk ducts" so was pointless to try and my poor boy was subjected to multiple heel prick tests to 'test his blood sugars' (oddly never got the results of those) before she actually told me social services wanted a word with me (and told social services I wanted to talk to them - that social worker was really not impressed and I was helped to leave by another midwife shortly after that).

Call out the misinformation, call out stealing the picture and putting it in a place that isn't appropriate. We're all shit upon, we're all told we're failing one way or another, the culture around motherhood as competitive bests doesn't really help any of us, but I can see why for those seeking out breastfeeding support, having cheery graphics of the benefits might have its uses. Not all of us get the support we should and have to turn to the internet for random people to help us.

The thing is, it doesn’t have to be a judgement thing, but people get defensive about not being able to BF and take it as an attack, when the specific benefits of breastfeeding are simply pointed out

To the detriment of formula feeding

The real alternative if formula didn’t exist is the babies would starve to death.

*It’s only the first (or maybe second ...) in a large variety of parenting fails, so we’d better get used to it 😂

Seriously though, wanting to do your best is great but parents need to be realistic about what they can and can’t do, and live with it. Much of it is really so minor in the scheme of things.*

I do agree with this, though I think it's harder to have that perspective when you have your first newborn.

But there are massive double standards about what is viewed as "helpful and infomative" vs "preachy and judgemental" when it comes to parenting. For example, posting the benefits of healthy eating for kids, or less screen time = preachy and judgemental, but breastfeeding and being highly responsive (ie cosleeping, attachment parenting etc) = totally fair, even when their posts are full of judgment about people who do things the other way.

The real alternative if formula didn’t exist is the babies would starve to death. no, they’d be fed by other women and probably weaned early.

@5zeds

The real alternative if formula didn’t exist is the babies would starve to death. no, they’d be fed by other women and probably weaned early.

I was going to say this there would be wet nurses and support for women who want to donate.

That’s social media for you! Full of misinformation and blatant lies. I don’t know why you’re so surprised.

@Lockheart

Breastmilk does not kill cancer cells.

@RaskolnikovsGarret
"Does breast milk really kill cancer cells?"

Researchers at Gothenburg University, Sweden have discovered a constituent of breastmilk called alpha lactalbumin, causes cell suicide in over fourty types of cancer.

The team been looking at the antibiotic properties of breast milk when a researcher noticed that cancerous lung cells in a test tube died on contact with breast milk.

They discovered that when alphalactalbumin was mixed with acid (as also found in breastmilk and the stomach of breastfed infants) a compound named HAMLET was formed (human alphalactalbumin made lethal to tumour cells)

Researcher gave a period of 5 days treatment to patients with bladder cancer. They injected Hamlet into the respondents’ body through the catheter and discovered patients urinated dead cancer cells after each treatment.

Breast milk does kill cancer cells. A lot of the stuff breaking through on immunology etc was put on hold when Covid hit.

Breast milk does kill cancer cells.

No, it does not. A molecule extracted from breastmilk forms a compound when mixed with acid which can kill cancer cells. It's literally in your post, @Ponoka7

Raw breastmilk straight from the breast does not kill cancer cells. If it did, human women would be being exploited for it en masse.

Desperately ill people have bought human breast milk from the internet on the basis of this misinformation. Please stop spreading it.

It’s correct enough to make the point though. The point being that breastmilk is superior to formula. Missing 1 or 2 formula ingredients off the list wouldn’t change the point

I think formula was presented as equivalent or superior and now is presented more accurately as an appropriate alternative if breast milk isn’t an option.

Oh stop it Ponoka. Breastmilk does NOT kill cancer cells. And no idea why you’re saying about work being put on hold because of covid. Completely irrelevant here, these studies have been going on since the nineties.

Stop spreading this crap. It’s people like you who caused my mother to wonder if some lunatic treatment might help with her cancer. Thank God we managed to convince her not to.

The problem with social media, news outlets, Internet forums etc, is that they’re accessible around the world.

The graphic was initially published by an American breastfeeding group. The information they have shared is true to their intended audience. The problem occurs when people outside of the country read it, and assume it’s correct. Here in the UK we have much higher standards for formula, so the information doesn’t apply. So you can ask the UK based groups to correct it (and they absolutely should). However having it removed completely for ‘misinformation’ just isn’t possible, because what’s written is actually true.

It’s similar to mumsnet. If you read threads on inheritance, education, divorce, covid rules etc, there are many differences in laws between England and Scotland. So if I was to post that children have no automatic right to their parents inheritance, that would be absolutely true (in England). However it would be terrible advice to someone in Scotland, where children do have a claim. So someone in Scotland would potentially be negatively impacted by it, by having it removed would deny information to someone in England.

What we need to do is better educate people on how to critically asses what they read on the internet. The alternative is to only be able to access sites etc from our own countries. But that’s a level of censorship that I really wouldn’t be comfortable with.

@healmebaby

It’s correct enough to make the point though. The point being that breastmilk is superior to formula. Missing 1 or 2 formula ingredients off the list wouldn’t change the point

And neither way would stop making that point in an unsolicited setting (when you aren't someone's doctor) from being a bit of a dick move.

I really don’t receive it like that @aSofaNearYou to me it’s not offensive at all and I have bf and ff. it’s no different than posts about any subject. There ARE people who are pressured to ff by people who don’t think breast is best. Why can’t someone post a post supporting bfing?

@5zeds

So correct it and repost it? If it’s accurate “being upset” is not a reason not to provide the facts. If it’s inaccurate then address that.

How can she correct it? She doesn’t have the original file.

Not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse.

@5zeds

I really don’t receive it like that *@aSofaNearYou* to me it’s not offensive at all and I have bf and ff. it’s no different than posts about any subject. There ARE people who are pressured to ff by people who don’t think breast is best. Why can’t someone post a post supporting bfing?

I think it's interesting - and perhaps the tide has turned somewhat in recent years - that people mention the pressure to FF so much on this thread.

I had my child in 2018 and can honestly say I have never, even once, encountered anyone pressuring mothers to use formula. It's been very much the opposite. There is a very strong narrative of breast is best throughout the process of pregnancy, and afterwards, both in terms of the medical advice you are given, and what you find amongst parenting communities. The only criticism of breast feeding I ever see, or see discussed, is the debate about doing it in public, not about doing it at all. I'm aware that this was less the case in earlier years but in my experience, this pressure to formula feed is very much not the culture we are living in anymore.

That said, I won't claim that people don't experience this within their own families and communities, perhaps from people who had babies a long time ago and are ignorant. But I don't think this constitutes a majority at all anymore.

In my opinion, given the huge amount of societal pressure to breastfeed and the effect it has on vulnerable young mothers, it is tone deaf and unkind to make those posts in an unsolicited setting. I am all for posts supporting breastfeeding, but in breastfeeding groups, not fired out to the general public, especially if the posts criticize formula, rather than just talk about the positives of breastfeeding.

I FF. The idea of BF was utterly repellant to me at the time, but I can easily look past these daft bollocks memes which are designed by doors to prop up their own narrative and ideals. I don’t feel guilty or sad or like a failure.

If anything, they’re amusing. Like that ghastly smug baby vest that says ‘breast milk in my tum, cloth on my bum, sleep with my mum.’ 😂