Red flag for SN or overthinking it?

[Redflagorworryingaboutnothing]

DH is on the autism spectrum (he has the presentation that used to be known as aspergers)

DSS (9) was diagnosed with ASD when he was 6 and our DS (3.5) was diagnosed with ASD just before his third birthday.

I have a few concerns about eldest DSS (11) but I'm not sure if I'm over thinking things or not, because of the others having autism perhaps I'm worrying unnecessarily?

He's incredibly emotional to the extent that even asking him a basic question like "What would you like to drink?" appears to set him on edge.

If anybody (me, DH or his ex) redirect him or address dangerous behaviour he will stand there and quiver, rapid breathing. Really panicking. He's not told off very often and neither parent has ever used physical discipline, ever, so his anxiety seems disproportionate.

Rejection sensitive dysphoria is what sprung to mind about that.

When you ask him a question it's like he doesn't retain the information or know how to respond. An example from today:

We couldn't find DS anywhere in the house and he has form for escaping. I'm frantically checking rooms and ask DSS to check the bedroom. He stands at the bedroom door looking in and I'm calling to him "is DS in there? Is DS in there?" but he just stands in the doorway looking in, then looks at me confused, no response. I rush to the bedroom and DS is sitting on the bed within his line of sight. Its like DSS couldn't compute the required answer

When he comes home from school and me or DH ask him how his day has been it takes him a good 60 seconds to respond and he pulls these facial expressions that i'd struggle to describe properly in writing. DH referred to them 'like tics or tourettes'

He's quite immature for his age and still needs help with tying laces, washing in the shower sometimes (DH and his ex do that, not me) and getting clothes out etc.

He also seems incapable of sitting still, DH jokes about him having ants in his pants but he really does never stop. He's gone through 3 Xbox controllers this year because he jumps up and down on the spot when playing, out of excitement it seems - but that's not the norm is it surely?

When he's not on the xbox he's running around all over the place, doing little break dances and re enacting fighting games.

Does any of this raise red flags for any SN or do you think I'm worrying over nothing?

DH has never been concerned because eldest DSS is nothing like youngest DSS or our DS who are both lower functioning, if you will.

WDYT?

Needs help with putting shoes on and tying laces, that should have said.

What do his school and/or GP say? I’d agree that some of these things sound peculiar for his age, but school and GP would be my first port of call.

From what you've described, it does sound as though he may also be on the spectrum.

There are definite red flags there

I'm not aware of any concerns having been raised by school or the GP, DH has never mentioned them raising anything but then I don't have any contact with their mum to know whether anything has been raised with her personally.

DH was in denial about DSS(9) and DS until they were diagnosed as he didn't want to believe they had it, so it'll be a sensitive subject for him.

I was considering having a casual chat with DH and raising my concerns but I don't expect it'll be well received, however he himself has acknowledged there is a definite communication issue. He just won't want me putting a label on it, so to speak.

That sounds like adhd

He sounds very anxious. That standing still thing is something a lot of children do when they are stressed by the question and anxious about responding.
He has two siblings who are autistic, so that will also have had an impact on how he behaves, and also on how anxious he feels, if he has a sibling prone to outbursts or meltdowns for instance.
But really he needs an assessment if you are all concerned. What does his Dad think ?

This sounds very like my son who is currently getting assessed for SN and they have floated ADHD about quite a lot! He doesn't fit it perfectly but he also doesn't fit an autism diagnosis and they definitely think there is something that under pins it. The more I have read about ADHD the more I see it in him!

DH has never been concerned enough about any of his behaviours to want him assessed for anything, but then he has always been in denial about the other boys SN until they were diagnosed.

DSS(9) first had concerns raised by nursery when he was 2 but DH insisted it was all nonsense and didn't want to pursue anything. It took school raising their own concerns at 5 for him to accept an assessment was nessecary.

With our DS I raised red flags from 10-11 months old hence the early diagnosis.

I don't think, sadly, that even if DH accepts DSS(11) may be neurodiverse he will push for an assessment.

Mum is a bit clueless for want of a better word, not a bad person by any means just not very on the ball.

Can I ask which parts of my post stood out to you the most as likely ASD or ADHD?

I think they are red flags. I have a high functioning DD and school were never on board with it as she is high achieving and no bother at school. She is much more difficult to manage at home, with me, where she feels comfortable. I think if you are noticing these things you will need to take it forwards. However if DS is your step son then it will be up to his DPs to take it forwards but you could raise concerns with them. Good Luck.

Sounds very much like my DS who has ASD but he also has sensory difficulties, sleep difficulties, walks on tip toe, special interests, aggression.

Your DH won’t be doing your DSS any favours by being in denial… quite the opposite. You interact a lot with this boy. If you think there are red flags (and it certainly seems like there are) then I think the right thing to do is to raise them sensitively with your DH. Maybe avoid some of the more nuanced points about how DSS responds to questions for now (because DH could push back that it’s just a personality thing… even though I suspect that you’re right that there’s more going on there), and focus on the black and white things like the tics, not being able to tie shoe laces, and not being able to shower.

Thank you, i appreciate the replies. I think I will raise it with DH. I can't force him to request an assessment but at the very least he might have a talk with his ex and she may do.

DH thinks in very black and white, he's also quite naive with regards to how SN presents differently in different children. He has never felt compelled to do much research about autism, be it his own or the boys. I think in a way he's ashamed of it.

DSS9 and DS both had a severe language delay, whereas DSS11 never has. He met all his milestones and is very talkative, so in DH's eyes there's nothing 'wrong' with him.

He thinks he's just a sensitive child.

I've just remembered something, school have raised something with parents in the end of yesr report. They mentioned him Fidgeting and being easily distracted.

I don't know exactly what they said about it, just that they have, because DH relayed that to me.

I think you have to step back and think about what outcome you're hoping for. The boy has a mother who is from description a bit thick or entirely disengage and a father who has no interest in understanding how to help his already diagnosed sons.

I'd leave it OP. There's really nothing to be done.

@SloopB

I think you have to step back and think about what outcome you're hoping for. The boy has a mother who is from description a bit thick or entirely disengage and a father who has no interest in understanding how to help his already diagnosed sons.

I'd leave it OP. There's really nothing to be done.

There's not much I can do really is there, though I feel I'd be doing DSS a disservice if I didn't mention something to DH.

I was working my way up to having the talk earlier on but we were interrupted by one of the others having a meltdown.

Ultimately it's not my job or place I guess.

Since DS was diagnosed I sprung into advocate mode for him, I researched alot and still do.

Knowing DH how I do, he'll be defensive and imply I'm obsessed with labels.

Don’t depend on school to spot it. My ds was never flagged by school and they struggled to accept that he was on the spectrum.

Take a look at the symptom checker on ADDitude. It’s not a diagnostic tool obviously but it’s a good starting point for talking about what you’re seeing in more general terms. Ime people tend to dismiss or minimise specific examples.

Because your dh has Aspergers he may have a profoundly different way of thinking about how he is/the dc are than you do. My ds seems to lack any introspective interest which I found very hard to grasp. But that’s a bias of my neuro type that I was projecting on him.

My son has huge issues with anxiety, the slightest thing will cause him to melt down or massive panic attacks. He can't make a decision over something and it can cause him to spiral. He also can't sit down, even when playing the computer where he is most focused he literally bounces all over the place. He climbs the walls, runs, jumps, fidgets constantly and doesn't have much focus unless it is something he is particularly interested in. He also has tic behaviours, mostly facial tics which worsen with his anxiety or when hes put on the spot or attention is on him!
He is an extremely talkative/social boy, has a fairly large circle of friends and has no real issues with communication. He is kind, compassionate and so gentle with younger kids etc.
I think that was the main things that I noticed from your post which are similar to him. Although I'm not too focused on a diagnosis, I'm worried without it he'll struggle as he gets older and just want him to get the right support!

They’re not labels though. Labels are something that you put on a suitcase.

What you are going is identifying a neurotype to help identify the lagging skills that ds needs extra help with.

Getting a diagnosis is like getting a key that opens doors to the services and supports he needs.

Another poster has suggested ADHD and, if it turns out to be that, medication can make a massive difference to his outcomes.

Sorry posted too soon!

eg Adhd dc on medication have better outcomes with CBT (which could help address the anxiety) than dc who are not medicated.

I don’t think I’d be able not to advocate for him in the circumstances.

Lots of red flags. My (now X)P thought there was 'nothing wrong' with DD even though I, nursery and her childminder had all got concerns. Turns out they both have autism.

Even if you can't get a diagnosis, you can at least adapt to how your DSS is when you're dealing with him. (You're probably doing this already without thinking about it.) Perhaps look into some of the strategies for coping with anxiety or communication difficulties to help him let you know how stressed he's getting. NAS used to have resources. Rather than asking direct questions, ask by guessing specific answers or try to make questions more fun (or silly).

Could be ASD or sensory related - but it could also be language related. Does he actually understand what you're asking him or is he drifting by following others and just hiding a lack of understanding? DD2 was doing a lot of that - which was feeding into anxiety because she didn't understand what she was being asked to do so was scared of doing it wrong, so spent more time worrying about it, which impacted upon her listening, which fed into the lack of understanding if that makes sense. I knew there was something up in terms of language processing but had deliberately not delved too deeply as I didn't want to muck up any assessment results (I'm a SALT student myself) - finally got a good language assessment done on her and huge gaps in social communication, but also gaps in higher level language and inference skills. Basically she's been blagging it and being organised by her peers and sister for bloody years.

DD2 incidentally is a right chatterbox - but when you unpick the language of the chatter - you can see the holes in there.

If you can't get DH to consider diagnosis - I'd just start trying to put supports in place for him where you can - things like fiddle toys and gym balls to try to feed the fidget needs while saving your sofa (DD2 does the sofa jump in excitement thing so I get that - only DD2 usually manages to miss the landing and end up on the floor), We get the impromptu dance routines (and she's incredibly dyspraxic so everything goes flying) as well. Things like timetables or starting to teach him to use a planner so he's got something to "hook" his day onto might bring the anxiety levels down a bit too. Oh yeah and DD2 is incredibly incredibly emotional.