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Original poster

Scotland to trial 4-day working week

378 replies

MyBadHabitsLeadToYou · 03/09/2021 19:02

With no consequential pay reduction.

I couldn’t find a thread on this. Apologies if I have missed one.

I’m not sure what to make of this. I already work a four-day week (so that my four year old isn’t in full time nursery) and it’s a nice balance. But sometimes a bit stressful because my workload is heavy so it’s one less day in which to get things done. However, soooo many people are so overworked and stressed and it would be good for mental health etc.

But I’m not entirely clear on how this will work in practice e.g small private businesses. Twitter views are very mixed. How will it benefit retail staff etc, will it only benefit the office workers…

Just wondering what the consensus is.

OP posts:
Mantlemoose · 03/09/2021 20:27

@Clocktopus

If its as unworkable as some posters claim then the trial will fail, the idea will be shelved, and nothing more will come of it. What's the big deal? If however its trialed and it works then it will benefit a lot of people and will help make work more accessible for many too.
The big deal is that it will create a lot of staff unhappy because they are required to work 5 days a week because the company needs them to. Our reception and cleaning staff are going to end up being really unhappy because we can't facilitate a 4 day week for them unless we hire extra staff to cover the 1 day which we can't afford to if we need to continue paying them for 5 days.
JaneKing75 · 03/09/2021 20:27

One of our competitors has been doing this for 3 years, staff regularly leave our place to go to them. They are slightly less profitable but saving about 1/2 million a year in staff attrition costs so happy days.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:27

Why @Mantlemoose? Why can’t your company just coordinate better?

Antsinyourpanta · 03/09/2021 20:28

I probably have enough work to work 8 days a week but I'd love it if my main client only worked 4 days a week - a day less bombardment of emails, WhatsApps and phonecalls (counting down the days to their religious holidays Blush)

Clocktopus · 03/09/2021 20:28

The big deal is that it will create a lot of staff unhappy because they are required to work 5 days a week because the company needs them to. Our reception and cleaning staff are going to end up being really unhappy because we can't facilitate a 4 day week for them unless we hire extra staff to cover the 1 day which we can't afford to if we need to continue paying them for 5 days.

And again, it won't work for every workplace or every individual circumstance but it will work for some and staff should have the option in those cases.

burritofan · 03/09/2021 20:28

Fucking hell, some people really love work having the boot on their neck, don’t they?

Clocktopus · 03/09/2021 20:30

Karen is a receptionist and works 9am - 1pm Monday to Friday. Pamela job shares with Karen. Pamela works 1pm - 5pm Monday to Friday. Karen changes to Monday to Thursday. Pamela changes to Tuesday to Friday. Who covers the reception desk on Friday morning? Who covers the reception desk on a Monday afternoon?*

What would happen if they both rang in sick? Do that.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:31

@Clocktopus

Karen is a receptionist and works 9am - 1pm Monday to Friday. Pamela job shares with Karen. Pamela works 1pm - 5pm Monday to Friday. Karen changes to Monday to Thursday. Pamela changes to Tuesday to Friday. Who covers the reception desk on Friday morning? Who covers the reception desk on a Monday afternoon?*

What would happen if they both rang in sick? Do that.

What would happen if they both rang in sick anyway?
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:31

Oh sorry @Clocktopus

sst1234 · 03/09/2021 20:31

@Clocktopus

Karen is a receptionist and works 9am - 1pm Monday to Friday. Pamela job shares with Karen. Pamela works 1pm - 5pm Monday to Friday. Karen changes to Monday to Thursday. Pamela changes to Tuesday to Friday. Who covers the reception desk on Friday morning? Who covers the reception desk on a Monday afternoon?*

What would happen if they both rang in sick? Do that.

Pay someone else and increase your costs? Great idea. You’ve clearly never run a business.
Mantlemoose · 03/09/2021 20:34

@Clocktopus

Oh so basically the service deteriorates to make this nonesense idea work.

No, it doesn't. How dirty do you think an office gets in the space of one day? Everyone who works there is an adult, if there are any spillages or unusual amounts of mess (e.g., a bin gets full) then they're capable of sorting it out for themselves on her day off. You wouldn't be able to tell when visiting which day was her day off and which one wasn't.

Remember that when Jo the cleaners hours are cut to 3 days and she's lost a days pay because people who aren't paid to clean are having to do so. Big picture folks!
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:35

@Mantlemoose why would she lose a day’s pay?

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 20:36

It would seem to be unworkable by most businesses as it increases costs, but presumably the Scottish government thinks this could works for some civil service roles. Are there a lot of civil servants with their feet up 20% of the time currently?

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:39

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

It would seem to be unworkable by most businesses as it increases costs, but presumably the Scottish government thinks this could works for some civil service roles. Are there a lot of civil servants with their feet up 20% of the time currently?
How does it increase costs?
Mantlemoose · 03/09/2021 20:40

@sst1234 I have 52 staff. More than 50% of these are part time workers working Monday to Friday. All our staffs wages were topped up to 100% during covid. We're a fabulous company to work for but having to employ another 25 staff simply would mean that 52 staff won't have a job. Our business is scraping by. This will finish us. By all means any of them want flexible working that's fine but not having to pay them for 5 days if they will only be working 4.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:41

[quote Mantlemoose]@sst1234 I have 52 staff. More than 50% of these are part time workers working Monday to Friday. All our staffs wages were topped up to 100% during covid. We're a fabulous company to work for but having to employ another 25 staff simply would mean that 52 staff won't have a job. Our business is scraping by. This will finish us. By all means any of them want flexible working that's fine but not having to pay them for 5 days if they will only be working 4.[/quote]
Why would you have to employ another 25 staff though?

Mantlemoose · 03/09/2021 20:41

@Pumperthepumper
What would happen if they both rang in sick anyway?
Then one of the office staff would cover but we can't do that every week.

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 20:41

If 20 bin men worked every minute of the day for 5 days a week then you paid them the same for working a 4 day week, they’d be a days worth of work for 20 people to do and you’d have to pay them to do it.

Dagnabit · 03/09/2021 20:42

Who the fuck is Alan?

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:42

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

If 20 bin men worked every minute of the day for 5 days a week then you paid them the same for working a 4 day week, they’d be a days worth of work for 20 people to do and you’d have to pay them to do it.
Again, this assumes they all have the same day off.
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:42

@Dagnabit

Who the fuck is Alan?
He’s Jo’s jobshare.
Winter2020 · 03/09/2021 20:43

This seems a very complicated way to achieve what could basically be done by encouraging part time and flexible working (perhaps giving employees greater rights to have it) along with a rise in the minimum wage.

At least the above rights and wage increases woukd apply to everybody. If they introduced a "work 4 days but get paid full time" I xan bet they would immediately say it doesn't apply to NHS or care staff - they haven't got enough to cover the hoyrs as it is.

It's all smoke and mirrors. If people work part time they get paid part time. Yes you could put the hourly rate or salary up and they would then if course earn more.
Perhaps we should make sure people can afford a roof over their heads/chikdcare etc on full time wages before we aspire for them to do it with part time work and wages.

If I was looking for a big hook as a political party it would be good quality affordable housing including for working people/families.

Mantlemoose · 03/09/2021 20:43

@Pumperthepumper
Because I need to cover different shifts at different buildings.
All I'm trying to say is that it will be the frontline staff that will lose out on this. Again, all for flexible working but to be paid for the hours they work.

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 20:43

But if they all work a 7 hour day and they work all day long, then you need 20 people to work 7 hours each day. If they are all working a 4 day week, you only have 16 people each day so you need to employ an extra 4 each day, and pay them.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 20:45

[quote Mantlemoose]@Pumperthepumper
Because I need to cover different shifts at different buildings.
All I'm trying to say is that it will be the frontline staff that will lose out on this. Again, all for flexible working but to be paid for the hours they work.[/quote]
No; it’ll mean you have to re-examine your business model if it ever gets as far as you. Frontline staff will only lose out if you, the management, refuse to coordinate.