Scotland to trial 4-day working week

[MyBadHabitsLeadToYou]

With no consequential pay reduction.

I couldn’t find a thread on this. Apologies if I have missed one.

I’m not sure what to make of this. I already work a four-day week (so that my four year old isn’t in full time nursery) and it’s a nice balance. But sometimes a bit stressful because my workload is heavy so it’s one less day in which to get things done. However, soooo many people are so overworked and stressed and it would be good for mental health etc.

But I’m not entirely clear on how this will work in practice e.g small private businesses. Twitter views are very mixed. How will it benefit retail staff etc, will it only benefit the office workers…

Just wondering what the consensus is.

theconversation.com/the-success-of-icelands-four-day-week-trial-has-been-greatly-overstated-164083

I would love to cut down to four days (often working close to 60hr weeks) but realistically it'll never happen.

I work 35 hours in 4 days and love it. It works for me. But totally understand that it won't work for every employer nor every employer.

I'm interested to know what those posters who work short weeks do. I think it's most feasible for those who run their own businesses or do office work (not counting those who aren't the main earner as that's a different scenario).

I'm paid fairly well but have to do quite long hours - never less than 10 a day but quite often 11-12. I work for a medium sized construction firm and am all over the place at multiple sites a day, waiting for deliveries, meeting land owners etc. I just couldn't go back to office work as I hate being stuck inside/in a chair all day and tbh hate corporate hierarchy and all the politics and buckshit that goes with it.

@ChaneySays

I'm interested to know what those posters who work short weeks do. I think it's most feasible for those who run their own businesses or do office work (not counting those who aren't the main earner as that's a different scenario).

I'm paid fairly well but have to do quite long hours - never less than 10 a day but quite often 11-12. I work for a medium sized construction firm and am all over the place at multiple sites a day, waiting for deliveries, meeting land owners etc. I just couldn't go back to office work as I hate being stuck inside/in a chair all day and tbh hate corporate hierarchy and all the politics and buckshit that goes with it.

A 12 hour day is a lot. Don’t you feel like you’re missing out on your life?

A 12 hour day is a lot. Don’t you feel like you’re missing out on your life?

Sometimes, but in all honesty I'm still happier than when I was in office work. I'd usually work nine hours a day as I'd be in 30 mins early to prepare for 9am meetings/calls, and I'd often not be out the door on time if the meeting finished at 5pm.

Worst of all was the mental load though. When I was managing projects, the salespeople, bid team, costing analysts, H&S, Innovation, site management, etc, teams would all be sending emails at different times and I'd be copied into them all. My phone would be pinging every night from email notifications and I'd feel compelled to check them else I'd just be worrying what surprises I might have come the 9am meeting (esp considering I was meant to be the one pulling it all together and keeping tabs on everything). Even if it only took 60 seconds to read an email, it meant I could never switch off.

Nowadays, I don't devote a moment's thought to work once I leave for the day. I also have plenty of time during the working day where I'm just waiting for contractors or driving 45 mins between sites listening to music or chatting to a mate on handsfree.

So, in all I'm happy to sacrifice an extra hour for the relative lack of stress, and sometimes the odd day where I do a couple extra hours. Plenty of people do 12 hours every week and work twice as hard for half the money I get, but I'll admit that my job would be absolutely perfect if it was only eight hours a day. But as is I'm still much less stressed than most executives I know.

[quote ICouldHaveCheckedFirst]@Pumperthepumper: the trials in Iceland did not result in 4 day weeks. I'll find a link in a minute.

My last job involved introducing leaner work practices, so I do have some understanding of how complex it can be.[/quote]
I posted the exact same week earlier but the poster you refer to isn’t interested in facts.
Just insisting that a 4 day work week ‘could work’ if people ‘redesign work practices’.

Never mind the fact that a 4 day week is already a reality for many people in the U.K. it’s called ‘part-time’ but with a high enough salary pay isn’t an issue.

*exact same link not week!

@ChaneySays

A 12 hour day is a lot. Don’t you feel like you’re missing out on your life?

Sometimes, but in all honesty I'm still happier than when I was in office work. I'd usually work nine hours a day as I'd be in 30 mins early to prepare for 9am meetings/calls, and I'd often not be out the door on time if the meeting finished at 5pm.

Worst of all was the mental load though. When I was managing projects, the salespeople, bid team, costing analysts, H&S, Innovation, site management, etc, teams would all be sending emails at different times and I'd be copied into them all. My phone would be pinging every night from email notifications and I'd feel compelled to check them else I'd just be worrying what surprises I might have come the 9am meeting (esp considering I was meant to be the one pulling it all together and keeping tabs on everything). Even if it only took 60 seconds to read an email, it meant I could never switch off.

Nowadays, I don't devote a moment's thought to work once I leave for the day. I also have plenty of time during the working day where I'm just waiting for contractors or driving 45 mins between sites listening to music or chatting to a mate on handsfree.

So, in all I'm happy to sacrifice an extra hour for the relative lack of stress, and sometimes the odd day where I do a couple extra hours. Plenty of people do 12 hours every week and work twice as hard for half the money I get, but I'll admit that my job would be absolutely perfect if it was only eight hours a day. But as is I'm still much less stressed than most executives I know.

But surely that’s the whole point: re-examining working patterns so the choice isn’t work a job where the mental load kills you vs one where the hours do. I think if I was in your shoes I’d be fucking delighted someone was trying something different.

@TractorAndHeadphones I really can’t help you if you can’t understand the phrase ‘it won’t work for everyone’.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@TractorAndHeadphones I really can’t help you if you can’t understand the phrase ‘it won’t work for everyone’.[/quote]
And I can’t help you if you don’t understand that
a) Your claims of other countries ‘doing it for years’ are unsubstantiated.
b) It’s already being done in a lot of places. The reason it’s not in other places because .. well.. it won’t work. Which is the same thing that you said, it won’t work for everyone and for places where it does it’s already being done!
Anyway this is a thread, not a private message between us, so I’ll leave it at that.

*places in the U.K. I mean

I don’t think anyone will mind you replying to me, but I feel like I’ve been fairly open with my feelings about it. I’m not sure why that is worth this personal attack on me, where you demand I provide answers to questions and goad other posters into doing the same. It feels a bit unnecessary when I’ve been pretty candid about my own thoughts.

I told the local Neds that Nicola was going to make them work 4 days every week. They were NOT impressed, but they aren't going to vote for the SNP again.

But surely that’s the whole point: re-examining working patterns so the choice isn’t work a job where the mental load kills you vs one where the hours do. I think if I was in your shoes I’d be fucking delighted someone was trying something different.

Well, it's a nice thought but you can't really accomplish five days building work in four days when you already have teams working full capacity. Office work IME can often have a lot of unnnecessary meetings/processes, and just general instances where people could knuckle down and chat less if there was incentive (like an extra day off), but Polish builders don't tend to fuck around. They have set breaks and generally graft pretty hard between them.

@ChaneySays

But surely that’s the whole point: re-examining working patterns so the choice isn’t work a job where the mental load kills you vs one where the hours do. I think if I was in your shoes I’d be fucking delighted someone was trying something different.

Well, it's a nice thought but you can't really accomplish five days building work in four days when you already have teams working full capacity. Office work IME can often have a lot of unnnecessary meetings/processes, and just general instances where people could knuckle down and chat less if there was incentive (like an extra day off), but Polish builders don't tend to fuck around. They have set breaks and generally graft pretty hard between them.

But surely you can stretch it to six days and have everyone work more normal shifts?

[quote Pumperthepumper]@letmethinkaboutitfornow you can start your own campaign for English independence? Nobody is stopping you.[/quote]
I am Welsh and live in Wales, while I support the idea of an independent Scotland I do support the idea of English independence more, imagine it English people, you could all have your Tories fiddling your money, you could close your borders from all the 'forins' stealing your jobs and simultaneously claiming all the benefits and all the houses. No more supporting the other 3 nations of the UK, and honestly NI, Wales and Scotland will have a thank fuck youre goneparty to tell you how much we wont will miss you

But surely you can stretch it to six days and have everyone work more normal shifts?

A ten hour shift is normal in a lot of sectors. Plenty of people actually do 12 hour shifts - nurses, security guards, etc. I think people often forget this because discussion forums tend to be overwhelming populated by middle class people and office workers.

A ten hour shift surely wouldn't be 5 days a week though. As that is 50 hours.

@ChaneySays

But surely you can stretch it to six days and have everyone work more normal shifts?

A ten hour shift is normal in a lot of sectors. Plenty of people actually do 12 hour shifts - nurses, security guards, etc. I think people often forget this because discussion forums tend to be overwhelming populated by middle class people and office workers.

But it’s normal because that’s the output patterns your employer has decided on. There’s nothing to stop them stretching it to six. Working class people and manual workers also deserve a reasonable work schedule and it’s sad you don’t see that.

Another bribe by the SNP

I just don’t think Pumper - like the SNP - understands how private enterprise works. Private companies always drive efficiencies, and make inefficient workers redundant. If a construction company wants people to work 5 x 10 hour shifts then they will pay people who are prepared to do that and employ them. There is no slack in the working day to cut, so you can’t do 5 days work in 4 without a negative effect. I asked a while back which private sector companies could make this work and have had no reply.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

I just don’t think Pumper - like the SNP - understands how private enterprise works. Private companies always drive efficiencies, and make inefficient workers redundant. If a construction company wants people to work 5 x 10 hour shifts then they will pay people who are prepared to do that and employ them. There is no slack in the working day to cut, so you can’t do 5 days work in 4 without a negative effect. I asked a while back which private sector companies could make this work and have had no reply.

I’d say I understand them better than you pretended to understand Edinburgh schools.

The ‘negative’ effect of Chaney’s company would be no longer hitting targets within five days, and stretching them to six. But the benefits to the worker would be: no longer working 10 hour shifts to make money for someone who thinks you’re worth so little you deserve that kind of working pattern.

But the benefit for working for Cheney’s company is that it seems to be productive and successful. People are working efficiently. This is good for clients, and good for the health of the company, and therefore good for the job security of the employee (and job security is a very important factor in the private sector where redundancies are much more common than in public sector).

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But the benefit for working for Cheney’s company is that it seems to be productive and successful. People are working efficiently. This is good for clients, and good for the health of the company, and therefore good for the job security of the employee (and job security is a very important factor in the private sector where redundancies are much more common than in public sector).

I wouldn’t say having to work ten hours shifts to meet those targets is ‘working efficiently’.