To think the government needs to crack down on religious groups over CSA?

[Mlhactive]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270

Religions have been getting away with this since time immemorial. I saw on the news that the Jehova’s Witnesses don’t allow a member to report abuse unless there were two witnesses. How is this allowed? If a non-religious organisation had that policy it would be banned. But no matter how often stories like this come out it keeps happening. Something has to be done. Sanctions on groups who have been found to turn a blind eye maybe. Teaching children that sexual purity is more important than anything and that outsiders can’t be trusted should be considered child abuse.

The JWs have put out their usual non apology.

I lost my cousin to the cult that is JW.

He married a JW and has now basically cut contact with our family.

I’m not sure that CSA is linked to religion.

CSA is in every religious group, but also in non religious groups/communities/families.

For example, there is CSA in religion run orphanages and CSA in state run orphanages. It’s not religion that is causing the CSA.

I do think that religious groups should have a recognised duty of care and safeguarding for children within that religion. But beyond that, I don’t see how we can argue that religion leads to CSA or is responsible for CSA.

Religion is not the cause of the abuse but it is the cause of the cover-up when they place the reputation of the institution above the welfare of victims.

Make them laible for massive punitive damages. Should concentrate their minds on something they really care about.

@Jaysmith71

It is the cause of coverups? I don’t think so either. There was a lot of covering up going on in state run child homes in northern England when the CSA gangs were grooming and abusing girls up there. Also, in state run homes numerous cases where a member of staff is doing CSA...also cover ups happen. It happens too to vulnerable children in mental health units. Doctors practices. Etc everywhere it happens those involved will do cover ups.

Guilt causes cover ups, not religion.

Forgot athletics groups and coaches that do CSA...again cover ups.

I agree with PlanDeR: it's in local authority and State-run institutions, schools, nurseries, colleges, music academies, private tutors, youth organisations such as the Scouts and Girl Guides, health settings, sports organisations, broadcast media and entertainment industries and facilities and of course families. Wherever there are children and adults who have dealings with them. And that's without counting all the forms of abuse such as are spread online and remotely from where the children are, which brings in local and central politicians, police, judges, doctors, musicians and other kinds of professions, along with non professions.

The Government needs to crack down on CSA full stop.

They did research in the USA that showed the single biggest precaution you could take to protect your kids from CSA.... Not be part of an organised religion.

Yes, covering up is common to all institutions, secular and religious, for reasons of reputation, scandal etc. See BBC, children's local authority homes and local government politicians - e.g. Islington, and others where Labour politicians were involved in covering up or in denial about massive abuse in numerous towns in the north especially.

As I understand it, the Inquiry will be making its recommendations for action and sanctions on organisations separately, next year.

@caketiger

They did research in the USA that showed the single biggest precaution you could take to protect your kids from CSA.... Not be part of an organised religion.

I find that hard to believe because the majority of CSA perpetrators are within the same family as the victim.

@Lolalime

The Government needs to crack down on CSA full stop.

Exactly.

Appalling situation to me covering up those covering up these crimes are as guilty as those committing it. Is it any wonder that people are moving away from the church?

The report found it in multiple different Religions and demonisation. This has happened with religion throughout timr and throughout the world, and the attitude that what happened within the religion stays within the religion is heavily ingrained in the teachings. Children are born into religion and indoctrinated from birth, and the cover ups ofter happen at the very highest level. You can't seriously think that religion is irrelevant in this?

Religions particularly high control groups are a breeding ground for abuse because of the way they operate. Not reporting alleged abuse should be a criminal offence in my opinion.

@Mlhactive
You can't seriously think that religion is irrelevant in this?

Yes I do think religion is irrelevant. Because we find CSA and cover ups in every organisation that cares for or is for children. We find it in
Families (most often)
Sports Associations
Girl/Boy Scouts
Nurseries
Orphanages/Child Homes
Schools
GPs/CAMHS/therapists
Dentists

It is literally everywhere. So to think that religion is somehow a cause of CSA makes no sense. It is just one of many organisations used by sex predators to target children for CSA.

@PlanDeRaccordement you are right that it’s everywhere. I’m not suggesting religion is a cause of it happening.

However the specific power dynamics and structures of religion especially high control groups where conformity secrecy and distrust of outsiders is encouraged make great circumstances to keep it brushed under the carpet. That’s the issue. The psychology of religion and cult brings additional pressures that say the scouts doesn’t - concern for your eternal life usually if you fall out of favour.

Well the OP is whether the government should crack down on religious groups over CSA.

I see no point in targeting only religious institutions because 90% of CSA victims have no link to religion or a religious institution. Even the report itself the OP linked to says that only 10% of CSA victims were abused by a predator employed by or linked to a religious organisation.

So, the government needs to step up policing and awareness of CSA for all the organisations in which it occurs...especially families. Keep in mind that for children under six 50% of CSA is done by a family member, and this declines as the child gets older to 30% done by a family member for ages 12-17.

So it seems wrong to me to go after only religion which accounts for only 1 in 10 victims and do nothing to prevent the other 9 victims of CSA from happening.

I never said that they should only crack down on religious accusations. If the boy scouts start teaching children that sexual purity is paramount and implement a rule that sexual assault is only reported if there are two witnesses go ahead and ban them.

Well you implied it in your OP. Otherwise you’d have said should the government crack down on CSA...not crack down on religious groups for CSA. It sounded very anti-religion to me when religion is not causing CSA or even a primary place where CSA occurs.

I think the religious aspect is important because it’s focusing on institutional culpability and complicity inside organisations that span the globe. CSA in religions (and to be honest, other organisations like Scouts etc) is generally supported by the hierarchy- people know and actively shield the perpetrators, and can implement this across countries.

Yes, family CSA abuse is horrific and no doubt more common, but I think the Government is right to target religious institutions.

Most csa happens in families. That doesn’t mean the clear evidence that abuse happens in religious groups. Children and adults who report the abuse they were subjected to still have hurdles to climb to be believed. Doesn’t matter where the abuse took place, it’s still on the victim to ‘prove’ their allegations are worthy of investigation.
Of course faith groups should have effective safeguarding protocol. That’s totally missing in JW and for home schoolers, non registered schools. Shameful

Ok an example I know.

Two girls were abused by their father.

One went to the elders. He denied it. They took no action and the rumours about the girl being trouble went round so the rest of the congregation kept her at arms length.

One of the elders she reported to went on to abuse her himself.

Both him and the father were eventually jailed and this is all public record as is info about her sister who went into a relationship with a 36 year old with 6 children whose father was an elder when she was 17- not legally abuse.

So the situation was within the family yes. But if it had been reported to police when the girl was brave enough to originally tell the elders the outcomes could have been very different could they not?

Sorry I should have said they took no action because of the two witness rule also the elders themselves must believe the witnesses are credible. They have no training to do this.

Child protection training is report suspicions immediately do not investigate yourself and trained qualified people will do that. This is almost the polar opposite.

YANBU.

However, we should name the real, overall problem. That problem is MEN.

And, before anyone comes at me with NAMALT, I have amazing sons and DH etc. They all recognise that men (as a social class) are THE problem.