To think we should do away with girls/ boys uniforms?

[MerryMarigold]

Can't we just have a gender neutral uniform? Trousers, jumper, shirt, maybe tie
My daughter literally NEVER wears skirts outside of school but obviously ALL the girls wear skirts to school even though trousers are permitted.

A. It would help those struggling with what they identify as wouldn't need to make any massive statements via uniform.

B. The cost of girls uniform (usually) is ridiculous and much higher than boys. My daughter's school has a specific skirt and specific blouse (skirt is 30.00 alone!) where whereas boys have generic grey trousers and generic white shirts.

It seems schools have bought into/ contribute to/ emphasise this very distinct boys/ girls gendered clothing. I hate it!

One blazer
Absolutely, as long as it was one that was cut for girls and the buttons were on the left I'd be on board for this.

@GoldieLookingFish

One blazer Absolutely, as long as it was one that was cut for girls and the buttons were on the left I'd be on board for this.

Fine, have a male cut and a female one. Buttons on the left makes absolutely no difference though - it’s a historical hangover that has no practical benefit whatsoever, other than signifying ‘this is a garment cut for females’. It’s not like women and men button things up differently!

I think all that any uniform thread shows is how hard it is to get a proper unisex uniform that satisfies everyone. There will always be people who think collared shirts aren’t suitable for girls, ties are archaic, polo shirts are not smart, blah blah blah.

My youngest dd ( yr 6) and her best mates all wear trousers because they are more comfortable when playing football etc. She actually said yesterday about the silly gingham dresses they have as summer uniform whereas the boys get to wear shorts. They are going to address the head about this as they feel they should have the choice to wear something practical. We have 4 senior schools and their blazers help identify the gangs of kids fighting each other. 2 of the schools have a 40 year history of meeting every Friday for a punch up and pile on which stops the traffic and causes havoc. I feel this is the only useful argument for uniform in senior school!

Fine, have a male cut and a female one. Buttons on the left makes absolutely no difference though - it’s a historical hangover that has no practical benefit whatsoever, other than signifying ‘this is a garment cut for females’. It’s not like women and men button things up differently!

No, the boys can just wear the one cut for the girls, it will be much more simple that way. More gender neutral.

We all know the buttons are on different sides because of women having ladies maids but when children learn to dress themselves they learn how to fasten buttons on their own clothes and struggle to fasten them if they are on the other side. It's a learnt behaviour.

So the boys will learn how to fasten the buttons on the other side too on their new gender neutral 'one blazer for all' blazer. It will be fine.

It makes sense that blazers and shirts are all from the traditionally girls section as they will be made for women's chests.

The boys could size down I suppose. The necks might be a bit tight but I think that the boys won't mind feeling uncomfortable for just seven hours a day, five days a week for forty weeks of the year.

Absolutely, as long as it was one that was cut for girls and the buttons were on the left I'd be on board for this.

Totally with you in principle and I agree that we don't want 'unisex' to mean 'girls wear what boys have been wearing'. But boys (esp as they get older) have much wider shoulders (on average of course) so they will need to get a very enormous blazed to fit into a 'girls' one. Should be exactly the same style of course, but perhaps we could live in a world where we acknowledge the biological differences between girls and boys.

Girls Uniform (or those identifying as female)
Boys Uniform (or those identifying as male)

Surely, this is where the school has it all wrong. Piecing your posts together, OP, am I right in thinking that boys must identify as female in order to wear open neck shirts? Not sure if girls have to identify as male to wear trousers!?

@Feelingmardy

Absolutely, as long as it was one that was cut for girls and the buttons were on the left I'd be on board for this.

Totally with you in principle and I agree that we don't want 'unisex' to mean 'girls wear what boys have been wearing'. But boys (esp as they get older) have much wider shoulders (on average of course) so they will need to get a very enormous blazed to fit into a 'girls' one. Should be exactly the same style of course, but perhaps we could live in a world where we acknowledge the biological differences between girls and boys.

So, your proposal is to have school uniforms that look the same to the casual observer but are actually cut and made differently for girls and boys so that their bodies, which are biologically different, can be accommodated?

I reckon this might catch on. In fact lots of schools are doing this already.

I think organisations like the police are well on board with this. They can sound all sensitive and right on by saying it’s so transgender employees feel more comfortable but they also get to save a shed load of cash! All the clothing will be cut to the male body as it’s the default and cheaper. The women wearing uncomfortable clothing and having trousers that struggle to stay up as to fit over the hips the waist will be gaping and even good belts will loosen and slide though the day, well they just need to suck it up and be kind obviously. We can then slag them off for either looking scruffy if they wear a size that fits the hips/breasts properly or looking slutty if they wear something tighter to stop it coming loose. See those women just don’t take pride like proper policemen.

@CecilyP

Girls Uniform (or those identifying as female) Boys Uniform (or those identifying as male)

Surely, this is where the school has it all wrong. Piecing your posts together, OP, am I right in thinking that boys must identify as female in order to wear open neck shirts? Not sure if girls have to identify as male to wear trousers!?

The girls shirt is different entirely - open necked and striped as opposed to plain white. Girls can wear trousers but my daughter actually thought you weren't allowed as no one does (perhaps because they are going to be considered trans if they do).

This is not just about transgender being made to get comfortable. It's about those who are not yet comfortable with what sex they are. It's that these children, who want to experiment a bit have to make a massive statement ie. 'I identify as male/ female' not 'I'd like to wear a tie or trousers for a change'. NB. THIS IS NOT ABOUT MY KIDS (for those who seem to think it is a personal post) just the concept of such differentiated clothing carrying on from all the pink/ blue in the supermarket into uniforms. I just think the greater the differentiation between the uniform, the more kids feel forced into making decisions rather than just existing as a child that goes to x school.

I think the police is different. These are adults who have decided what they identify as once and for all. I disagree with it in adults but still agree with the theory that there should be a list of acceptable clothes and anyone can wear what they want off that list.

Just asked DD and she says around 25% of the girls in her school wear trousers. So I'm surprised that literally no one (not even any Muslim girls?) wear trousers at OP's school.

I think it would be more interesting for OP to challenge why she's written and seemingly just accepted:
My daughter literally NEVER wears skirts outside of school but obviously ALL the girls wear skirts to school Why is this "obvious"? And why will your DD be assumed to be "trans" if she wears trousers? Sounds like the school has some deep rooted issues, that will lead to more problems than ones surrounding uniform.

So how is adopting a male uniform for both sexes going to help those boys who want to experiment with adopting a female identity? Not at all, I would have thought, but make a lot of girls uncomfortable with what they are forced to wear.

My daughter wears tunic dresses because she finds them more comfortable as they don't have a waistband. They're also much easier as she is slim and finding trousers that fit is a nightmare.

My son is starting reception and finding school trousers was also a nightmare. I suspect he'd feel more comfortable in a tunic but I wouldn't want him to be picked on so we finally found trousers to fit.

I think it should be all uniform for everyone. I hope over the years boys are able to wear dresses without being picked on, as for some children they are genuinely more comfortable.

@UserStillatLarge

Just asked DD and she says around 25% of the girls in her school wear trousers. So I'm surprised that literally no one (not even any Muslim girls?) wear trousers at OP's school.

I think it would be more interesting for OP to challenge why she's written and seemingly just accepted:
My daughter literally NEVER wears skirts outside of school but obviously ALL the girls wear skirts to school Why is this "obvious"? And why will your DD be assumed to be "trans" if she wears trousers? Sounds like the school has some deep rooted issues, that will lead to more problems than ones surrounding uniform.

I have no idea why no girls wear trousers, OP. There are not many (any I know of, but not seen all the kids due to staggered starts/ finishes) Muslim girls in school, but perhaps they wear the skirt with Asian style trousers under it? I don't know.

I don't know why I said 'obviously'. I meant 'apparently'.

I don't know why the girls don't wear trousers. I was speculating (hence 'perhaps'). I do know there are a few transgender kids, who wear the other uniform, hence the potential association of trousers with being transgender.

Kids only going into Y8 and Y7 wasn't normal so it will be interesting to see what the next year brings. What deeper rooted problems should I be looking out for in the school?

I would be happy to do away with uniform altogether. The argument of ‘level playing field’ is fucking bullshit - some kids still have ‘better’ shoes, bags, new rather than second hand uniform, etc. That doesn’t stop kids in uniform being bullied because they aren’t washed as much, they come from a ‘difficult’ background. Whatever the situation uniforms do little to mask it and if anything can be more apparent when you have equality so the disparity really stands out. If it’s a cause for bullying then the schools should be more vigilant and crack down it.

Unisex clothes are often terrible for girls.
Skirts or trousers can be worn at my DDs' school, but the tops (polo shirt and sweatshirt) are unisex, AKA made to fit males. A 5'0" teen girl with a 34" bust is a very different shape to a 6'0" teen boy with a 34" chest, but the shirt is the same

My oldest DD was handy with a sewing machine, so had a variety of 'tailored' tops!

I fully agree, FoxesAtDawn.

Ridiculous, as long as girls and boys have the option to wear skirts/dresses/trousers/shorts that's fine! But my 2 daughters never wear trousers in or out of school (their choice)!! Don't tarnish every child with the same brown!! YABVVVVU

Ah because your daughter doesn't like skirts.

Ok

Gender neutral does not have to mean outlawing skirts!
As said above schools should just have a list of allowed clothing eg white shirt, black trousers/shorts/skirt/dress and anyone can choose from these. There is no need for a "girls uniform" and a "boys uniform".

@alohahae

Ah because your daughter doesn't like skirts.

Ok

She likes her school skirts. She's not remotely interested in wearing trousers to school despite always wearing trousers outside. Interesting discrepancy. Made me 🤔.

Why? Because girls' uniform = skirt, open neck striped shirt. Boys' uniform = trousers, white shirt and tie.

A school near has recently changed their uniform policy to 'trouser uniform' or 'skirt uniform' and the children can choose which they want to wear. No 'boys' or 'girls' mentioned. This is a through p1 - S6 school. Much better.

Maybe most girls don't wear trousers as they aren't cut for their shape?

Maybe they don't like the fabric because most polyester trousers are awful in warm weather and need more frequent washing?

I was quite against getting DD a pair of trousers as they were quite slim cut, it doesn't work with her figure. Since this year thye offer more cutsand she looks great in them.

Blazer - apart from being useful as it has pockets I dont' like them at all. And there is no way you can find a unisex cut, DD tried male outdoor jackets on the other weekend as we couldn't find a black one in the woman's section. To narrow at the chest, arms too long, too wide at the shoulder. And that was the same for several brands.

Don't start with PE kit, M&S has a unisex plain T-Shirt for sizes up to 16 years. DD is swamped in them. We bought two for Scout camps and returned them immediately.

The different body shapes is true to an extent in secondary. But there is no excuse for the fact that girls' PE skorts are stretchy, tight fitting and very short, while boys' pe shorts are long and baggy. There is no sports related reason girls should have to show their body shape in this way.

Skorts are really weird for PE, we had to wear them as they were sold as tennis skirts, even though tennis wasn't a sport we played.