To think we should do away with girls/ boys uniforms?

[MerryMarigold]

Can't we just have a gender neutral uniform? Trousers, jumper, shirt, maybe tie
My daughter literally NEVER wears skirts outside of school but obviously ALL the girls wear skirts to school even though trousers are permitted.

A. It would help those struggling with what they identify as wouldn't need to make any massive statements via uniform.

B. The cost of girls uniform (usually) is ridiculous and much higher than boys. My daughter's school has a specific skirt and specific blouse (skirt is 30.00 alone!) where whereas boys have generic grey trousers and generic white shirts.

It seems schools have bought into/ contribute to/ emphasise this very distinct boys/ girls gendered clothing. I hate it!

reluctantbrit

I worked in one school where girls could wear a shirt and tie but also had an option of an open necked blouse and scarf. Most girls chose it because they didn't have to tuck it in to their skirt or trousers.

I think at secondary there should be more options, but they should be options.

My school had summer and winter uniforms and a 'formal' option.

Summer uniform year 7-9 (first to third year in old money) was a pink gingham dress and navy blazer

10-11 open necked short sleeve blouse with skirt from winter uniform.

Winter uniform navy skirt, jumper and coat. Hats and scarves in navy, white or red. Long sleeved shirt type blouse with a tie, different tie for 'senior years' ie years 10-11

Formal was navy skirt, long sleeved shirt and tie, no jumper.

I was lucky they had abandoned the school hats a couple of years before.

I would have thought most schools have a standard uniform that both boys and girls wear, with maybe extra options for girls (i.e. skirt). When I was at school all the boys and girls were wearing the exact same thing (shirt, tie, blazer, trousers) but some girls wore skirts instead.

If it's the cost you're thinking of then I see your point, but I don't see gender neutral clothing as the solution, more a reasonable uniform policy. I don't understand why there's specific skirts and blouses required, that's nonsense. As far as I'm concerned a jumper/blazer with the school logo on and maybe a tie should be the only "branded" things required. For black trousers/skirts and white shirts/blouses I see no reason for a school not to allow any as long as they follow a reasonable uniform policy.

The price discrepancy is an issue, but I don't really see what's wrong personally with having a choice, the wording just means anyone can wear whatever in reality.

All school uniform can fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more.

Our local primary school have no uniform, although others in our area do have polo shirts, fleece, jumpers, trousers,culottes,skorts,shorts options. The secondary school has a range of uniform choices: shirt- long or short sleeved, skirt/shorts/trousers and jumper/cardigan/vest. Anyone can choose whatever combination of items they prefer. No boy or girl uniform, just select what combination works for you. It seems to work well. Guess where we are!!!

@DynamoKev

All school uniform can fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more.

It should be more reasonably priced, but what positives are there of getting rid of it?

My dd will only wear skirts/pinafore as that's what she likes, girls can and do wear trousers if they wish.

I wouldn't be impressed if they stopped girls wearing skirts, I also have no issue with a boy wearing a skirt to school if they wish

Our high school banned skirts a few years ago. All students must be in trousers and they must be the same style, no skinny fit or slim leg style allowed.

Doesn't really bother us as my DD hates skirts anyway and lives in jeans, leggings or shorts outside school.

It should be more reasonably priced, but what positives are there of getting rid of it?

Most kids hate it. Lots find it uncomfortable or unflattering, and it's not the social leveller that people claim it is. Nor does it 'give the students a feeling of belonging and pride in their school', or any such guff which schools peddle. Teachers have to spend an irritating amount of time dealing with uniform infractions. It's old-fashioned and unnecessary.

Most other countries manage perfectly well without it, so I don't understand why so many people in the UK regard it as such a necessary or desirable thing to have. Schools also claim that a formal uniform 'helps prepare students for the workplace', which is also ridiculous considering how many jobs no longer require formal dress, and the fact that kids will go off to college or university and be able to wear whatever the hell they like for a few years!

Why does gender neutral = traditionally male attire? There's nothing wrong with traditionally female clothes? I wear trousers to work because I feel more comfortable in that at work but I also sometimes wear skirts.. when I was at school, I liked wearing skirts, there's nothing wrong with being a girl/woman and wearing traditionally feminine clothing. The only change I think schools should make is to allow boys to wear shorts in summer. Or, if you really do want gender neutrality then let boys wear skirts

🙄

I wouldn’t want to get rid of skirts but certainly the gendered PE kits, why do the girls need a different Polo shirt and shorts for PE?

Does gender neutral mean 'male' then?

I would question the school on the sexed uniforms and cost differences. The former some parents don't mind, but you might find more support on trying to tackle both issues. I agree both are an issue.

You identified a 'gender neutral uniform': Trousers, jumper, shirt, maybe tie which, while times have changed, is traditionally the boy uniform which many are pointing out is an issue to assume male as the ideal neutral standard. There is a lot of discussion in many areas on the issues of 'standard uniform for all' meaning 'we got rid of the more feminine options we don't think guys will/should wear rather than something that considers both sexes'.

While trousers can be feminine, school trousers rarely are and many girls find them not cut well for their body shapes. Skirts can be more forgiving. If there isn't going to be sex differentiation, with culture as it is, the trousers are unlikely to be widely seen as feminine. They'll be neutral at best.

I've no strong opinion on uniforms vs dress code, they both have their pros and cons, but tackling uniform issues based on what people wear outside of it likely isn't going to work. Part of the whole thing with uniforms is to set apart from the rest of life to create a collective identity (and make it easier to spot and make complaints if they cause issues in the community... that seems to be their main use around here).

Trousers that fit look feminine and elegant, trousers that don't fit look crap. The only "trousers" that fit me are treggings which would be too tight fitting for school rules. I have tried on all the trouser styles in my 40 years of life and had worse issues as a teen as my waist/hip ratio was more extreme not less!

I also have the issue that my DD has no trousers that fit - she has some leggings that are acceptable (but quite baggy) and some Primark skinny jeans that are just about ok for length and not too baggy, except on her calf muscles. However, she has a (fairly reasonable) objection to the 3 inch long loops of elastic on the inside of the waistband. I haven't found any other trousers (formal or jeans) that come close to fitting other than sports leggings. There are also not many slim fit options for school trousers that I've come across!

Fair enough DD is unusually tall and narrow hipped for a 6 year old - most of the taller kids her age are more in proportion but she's got a small chest measurement than her 3 year old brother and is still fine in age 4-5 shirts if she's wearing a pinafore! However she's not an unhealthy weight/BMI so can't be that outside the norm, just unusual enough that clothing does not cater well.

In theory I’d agree, but why does such ‘equality’ invariably mean girls wearing trousers?

Everyone should have the choice of trousers, shorts or skirt. No gendering necessary.

Making everyone wear trousers is a bad idea. I've had a curvy figure since age 12 and used to be very embarrassed about it. Trousers would gape massively at the waist and cling to the bottom and thighs that I was very anxious to hide. As an adult if I want trousers I buy a large size (2 or 3 sizes bigger than my skirt size) and have them altered. There would have been no spare money for this kind of thing when I was young. I'm very glad that I was able to wear a skirt to school, even though I complained about it being ugly at the time.

I think it's very tiresome when a poster says that they or their DD personally likes trousers or thinks they're more practical and therefore everyone should be made to wear them. It's as if they can't see beyond their own situation and preferences.

I think the idea has some merit, it would certainly do away with all the issues about skirt length/rolling up skirts etc.

@Angel2702

I wouldn’t want to get rid of skirts but certainly the gendered PE kits, why do the girls need a different Polo shirt and shorts for PE?

Ours don't need different things for PE if they don't want different things They could wear the same as boys

What's different about your PE kit for boys and girls? I don't understand that

My teen could wear trousers but virtually no girls do. Trousers are far trickier and more expensive than a skirt if you are growing and gaining or losing weight. Lots of girls have yr 7 skirt for years and it just gets shorter - waist is adjustable. Trousers need replacement a lot if you grow, I stopped wearing trousers to work when I was losing weight as they never fitted properly.
PE kits should be unisex. Been a campaign at daughters school as boys can wear own tracksuit bottoms, girls have to wear leggings with a skort over (looks ridiculous). Not sure if anyone has identified as male for hour Games lesson a week but seems like solution to me.

Agree that skirts last years here too

I think schools should have a list off acceptable items that anyone can wear. No reason it can't include a skirt or dress for boys or girls if they want. It would make life so much easier and fairer.

The cost issue would be sorted if schools would stop insisting on specific items and let people buy uniforms out of supermarkets.

My eldest's school does this. Uniform is white shirt, black jumper, black trousers or skirt and black shoes. Excluding shoes I can dress him for less than £10.

My youngest's school still insists on logo polo shirts, sweatshirts and blazers. As a result that adds £60 to the price of her uniform.

I wouldn't have an issue with skirts and dresses being dropped from the uniform but I also don't mind them being there.

My daughter, however, would chose to continue to wear trousers.

Mine are long grown up, but I’m largely in favour of uniform, since it means a) no (or at least fewer) arguments about what to wear in the morning, and b) less chance of kids of less well off parents feeling crap, and maybe being ostracised or bullied, because they haven’t got X brand top or trainers.
But it should always be reasonably affordable, with a 2nd hand shop available.

At primary my children had no uniform. It all worked pretty well and the kids wore practical inexpensive clothes. There was lots of handing clothes down between families.
At secondary the kids choose from a number of items and they can wear these in a combination of their choosing. So there are trousers to fit girls and boys, same with shorts and logoed polo shirts, a jumper, a cardi. A hoody with the name of the school across the front, a skirt and checked shirts for girls snd boys. They can wear black trainers and socks and any jacket. The kids universally choose black down jackets. So my daughter chooses a skirt, shirt with a long sleeved black T-shirt underneath and a black jacket. My son always wears shorts and a polo shirt with a hoody. Other kids have other combinations and my friends son wears a skirt. The other kids don't bat an eyelid. The school is pretty liberal as far as hair colours and piercings are concerned but on the whole the kids look fine and seem comfortable. No one has to look like a blast from the past anymore.