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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask how much support Pro-Life believers provide for actual children in need? Texas just banned abortion in the US.

407 replies

thecranberries · 02/09/2021 12:44

AIBU to ask what Pro Life 'supporters' do to actually help living children in need? Sparked by Rachel Maddow Show Podcast on MSNBC - which gives a brilliant coverage on what's going on.

PL seems to want to stop a woman's right to choose, even in instances of rape or incest. That's in Texas, US, but as we know, many of the 'trends' that start in the US migrate over here. And as we know, there are lots of Pro-Life (read anti abortion, anti women) believers over here.

So, my AIBU is to ask - what do these PL do to actually support actual living children in need in this country or the world? How much do they give to UNICEF/Save the Children etc charities? How much do they donate time, money and resources to actual children living in poverty, bad housing, experiencing harm or bad schooling to ensure that these actual living children get the best life possible?

Do these PL, who cite religious grounds, actually enable women to obtain proper contraception when they need it? And speaking about religion, how many religious PL turn a blind eye to religious organisations history of child abuse?

I don't understand anyone, especially men, who does not accept a woman's right to chose what happens to her own body.

So, AIBU to ask Pro Life supporters to tell me in detail what they do - as actively as supporting their 'cause' - when it comes to helping living children in need?

OP posts:
Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 02/09/2021 18:12

So you'd kill an 8 and a half month old unborn child? If you would then I hope people don't even bother to reason with you any further.

What do you mean 'so you'd' do this or that? Take just a second to imagine a realistic situation where someone has decided to abort an 8 and a half month old foetus? Think about what sort of horrendous things would be going on for that decision to be made?

And then stop with the 'I hope people don't bother to reason with you any further' crap.

Mrgrinch · 02/09/2021 18:12

@PlanDeRaccordement I think the majority of the argument is like that, he two sides being so extremely opposite. I just refuse to believe anyone who says they'd be fine with it up to birth, it's surely not humanly possible to think that.

Mrgrinch · 02/09/2021 18:14

@Passmeamenuatthetottenham

So you'd kill an 8 and a half month old unborn child? If you would then I hope people don't even bother to reason with you any further.

What do you mean 'so you'd' do this or that? Take just a second to imagine a realistic situation where someone has decided to abort an 8 and a half month old foetus? Think about what sort of horrendous things would be going on for that decision to be made?

And then stop with the 'I hope people don't bother to reason with you any further' crap.

Can you explain to me a situation where it's okay to 'abort' a baby that could be born and survive on its own? Are you seriously saying you think someone should be able to do that?
Tevin · 02/09/2021 18:14

MrsShrute that's my point, I'm not your friend soyou could not be supporting me if you would also support legislation which makes it difficult for me to access abortion. If I had to go back I would not even try and engage with the treatments but go straight to abortion, this sort of restriction makes a difficult time that bit more difficult for what? So that some people can foist their morals on others? That's not support.
PlanDeRaccordement my worry with that is who decides? How bad does it have to get? I had the choice of when to abort. In Texas would I have needed to be in organ failure? What if I had been unconscious? Would the decision need to go through multiple doctors? What if they don't agree? How much unwanted intervention is it ok to force on me for 9 months to try and birth a baby? I have some lingering health issues from the few weeks I was pregnant, waiting for doctors to decide could have had a long term detrimental effect on me.
This is why I support it always being the woman's choice. Who else has the right to decide what risks I should accept, especially when, like most mother's who have abortions, I was already trying to avoid pregnancy!

goinggently · 02/09/2021 18:19

Of all the vulnerable people you've come across perhaps you've never encountered women who have received a devastating diagnosis in late pregnancy. I suggest you go and read some of their stories

goinggently · 02/09/2021 18:22

There's a lot to be very angry about...

PlanDeRaccordement · 02/09/2021 18:22

[quote Mrgrinch]@PlanDeRaccordement I think the majority of the argument is like that, he two sides being so extremely opposite. I just refuse to believe anyone who says they'd be fine with it up to birth, it's surely not humanly possible to think that.[/quote]
Some people are. Some are even in favour of infanticide when a late term abortion fails. So, a late term abortion is two steps. First step is you inject the fetus with poison to stop its heart. The second step is to induce labour so the mother actually goes through “childbirth”.

There are cases where the poison failed, and the mother births a live fetus. Again, any fetus born after 22 weeks has a small chance of survival if given medical attention. If it’s preterm labour and not an abortion, the

IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves · 02/09/2021 18:25

ime the rabid pro lifers (the ones screaming outside clinics and making death threats etc. ) don't actually give a shit about any baby after its actual birth.

Mrgrinch · 02/09/2021 18:28

@goinggently

Of all the vulnerable people you've come across perhaps you've never encountered women who have received a devastating diagnosis in late pregnancy. I suggest you go and read some of their stories
Like I said, I wouldn't bother to try and reason with someone who would end the life of an 8 and a half along month baby.
Mummyoflittledragon · 02/09/2021 18:29

@Mrgrinch
Just because the majority of women on this thread are pro-choice, it does not mean they are pro after-birth abortion. Pro after-birth abortion is infanticide. The arguments you are using are both simplistic and incredibly offensive.

goinggently · 02/09/2021 18:29

Exactly as I said... your empathy is entirely disingenuous

PlanDeRaccordement · 02/09/2021 18:30

@tevin

Great poInts all. And I do agree it should be the woman’s choice. However, while a woman should always have the choice to terminate her pregnancy for any reason up to birth, I don’t think she always has the right to also terminate the fetus.

Mrgrinch · 02/09/2021 18:30

@PlanDeRaccordement I've seen/read all about it. My stomach turns just thinking about it.

Mrgrinch · 02/09/2021 18:31

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]@Mrgrinch
Just because the majority of women on this thread are pro-choice, it does not mean they are pro after-birth abortion. Pro after-birth abortion is infanticide. The arguments you are using are both simplistic and incredibly offensive.[/quote]
I haven't said anything about after birth abortion. The poster said she was fine with abortion right up to birth.

PlanDeRaccordement · 02/09/2021 18:32

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]@Mrgrinch
Just because the majority of women on this thread are pro-choice, it does not mean they are pro after-birth abortion. Pro after-birth abortion is infanticide. The arguments you are using are both simplistic and incredibly offensive.[/quote]
Could say the same about the posters that accused her of wanting women to die in backstreet alley abortions. There’s a lot of offending going on from all sides.

PlanDeRaccordement · 02/09/2021 18:35

[quote Mrgrinch]@PlanDeRaccordement I've seen/read all about it. My stomach turns just thinking about it.[/quote]
So long as you understand that both prolife and prochoice camps have extremists inside them that do not reflect what the majority of people believe who are prolife or prochoice.

LemonFrog · 02/09/2021 18:36

@Mrgrinch

I am pro-life / anti-abortion, whatever you want to label it as. This came as good news to me.

Why do you feel that people need to pay money or time because they don't believe in abortion? Do you give money or volunteer for every organisation that lines up with your opinion and valued on every aspect of life? If so, I'm surprised you have and time and money left at all.

Because your opinion forces OTHER PEOPLE to go through with a pregnancy they don't want. Please name me another organisation which forces OTHER PEOPLE to go through with something even close to as life changing as pregnancy/having an unwanted child can be.

If you care that much about what OTHER PEOPLE do with their own bodies then I would damn well expect you to care enough to support the children born to these unwilling mothers that your organisation wishes to FORCE into having.

You can have your opinion. Mine is that to support anything like this makes you a disgusting person who doesn't care about women and certainly doesn't care about the foetus either, otherwise you'd want to carry on that care after they were born.

Jaysmith71 · 02/09/2021 18:37

First step is you inject the fetus with poison to stop its heart.

In which country is this legal? Certainly not in the UK, where second-trimester terminations are suction methods, D&C or D&E, that may involve the use of a general aneasthetic on the mother.

The idea of sticking a needle full of lethal 'poison' into a pregnant woman seems inherently implausible on so many grounds.

Original poster
thecranberries · 02/09/2021 18:38

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Mrgrinch
This is my main issue with people who are pro-choice. They all draw some imaginary line somewhere where one day it's not a baby, and the next day it is.

I think everyone, prolife or pro choice does this drawing of a line between fetus and baby or unborn and personhood. There are simply extreme ends of that spectrum. The prolife extreme is drawing the line at conception, the prochoice extreme is drawing the line at birth.

I had seen a survey, will try and find it, but it was basically saying that while at conception through first trimester, the majority of people support elective abortion, this % decreases through the second trimester, and by 3rd trimester most people do not support (late term) elective abortion.

  • elective abortion means by choice on a healthy fetus with healthy adult mother and not due to fetal abnormalities or endangerment of the mothers health/life or an abortion for a minor.[/quote] Both you and Mrgrinch seem to be the ones who are causing divisive extreme arguments and forcing people to justify their point of view without actually answering my AIBU to ask what PL's do to actually help living children who are in need, wherever these children are in the world.

The imaginary line is not so imaginary if you actually look into the science of gestation.

And it is not so imaginary if you had any empathy for the rough end of the stick that many women endure during their lives.

And it certainly not imaginary if you had any respect for / or take into account a woman's Human Right to have control over her own life.

Why don't you answer my AIBU rather than having nasty swipes at people? What do you do to actively support actual living children in need? Do list amount of time, resources and what other support you provide. Genuinely interested.

OP posts:
DameFanny · 02/09/2021 18:39

@PlanDeRaccordement

Texas has banned abortion

Sorry but they haven’t. They’ve restricted abortion, not banned it. A ban is when something is illegal no matter the circumstances.

Restriction to over 6 weeks - before anyone not actively monitoring for pregnancy would even be aware - and with no exceptions for rape etc - is an effective ban. No split hairs required.
BritWifeInUSA · 02/09/2021 18:40

I couldn’t get past the title if the thread and his incorrect it is. The state of Texas has not “banned abortion in the US”, the state of Texas has restricted abortion in the state of Texas.

I do wish people would realize that the United States are 50 different states, each with their own government and laws. The state I live in couldn’t be any more different from Texas if it tried.

DameFanny · 02/09/2021 18:42

Just seen what else @PlanDeRaccordement is posting. It's a fever dream of whatabouttery and let's pretend pro-choicers can be extremists. What a waste of breath.

Drgnbllx · 02/09/2021 18:46

@Mrgrinch

What if either or both mother or child will most likely die?

Oh wait I forgot. You don't give a fuck about either of them.

Neew789 · 02/09/2021 18:46

The whole thing is just insane.

CorianderBee · 02/09/2021 18:47

@bananapumpkin

Anti abortion is not anti women. It's clear that many people are both, but many others are pro-life partly because abortion is such a damaging experience for many women.

While it's laudable to help children in need, it's irrelevant to the PL/PC argument - unless you seriously believe that it's better to be dead than living in poverty.

What about the 11 year old rape victim who was refused abortion in the US recently. Would abortion have been more traumatic for that year 6 child than being forced to give birth to her adult rapists baby?

If she even survives birth that is...?